Siemens Ad: At Siemens Healthineers, we're redefining what's possible in radiation therapy,
combining advanced CT [computed tomography] and MR [magnetic resonance] simulation with AI-driven [artificial
intelligence-driven] workflows to improve precision, efficiency and access. By integrating seamlessly across the
Varian ecosystem and bringing innovations like photon-counting CT to market, we're helping clinicians deliver
better outcomes and moving closer to a world without fear of cancer.
This is “The RAD Position” with ASRT CEO and Executive Director Melissa Pergola, a podcast for medical imaging
and radiation therapy professionals.
Melissa Pergola: Hi there, and welcome back to “The RAD Position” podcast. I'm your host,
Melissa Pergola, and I'm with —
Ray Arambula: Her podcast partner, Ray Arambula.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. And, Ray, today we have Marissa Mangrum, ASRT president, to talk to us
really about what's next for the profession. It's going to be an amazing conversation. We're going to tackle
burnout and opportunities for radiation therapists and making sure that students are more involved. So really,
in my mind, it's a conversation about leadership, growth and taking care of the people who power patient care
every day.
Ray Arambula: That's going to be a great conversation. It's a lot packed in.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah, yeah. So, after all that having been said, we are really, really happy to
have you, Marissa.
Marissa Mangrum: I'm excited to be here and to talk about the great introduction you gave about
the topics.
Melissa Pergola: Well, as we get started, I want to go ahead and do an introduction so everyone
can learn a little more about Marissa.
So, Marissa Mangrum is an associate professor and radiation therapy program director for the University of
Oklahoma. Marissa's educational background includes a bachelor's degree in radiation therapy from the University
of Oklahoma and a master's of science in radiologic science from Midwestern State University.
She is a registered radiation therapist and has worked as a staff therapist, simulation therapist and in
education serving as a program director and a clinical coordinator. Marissa serves on the Board of Directors for
the American Society of Radiologic Technologists, and in addition, she has served on numerous committees for the
ASRT. Some of those are the Practice Standards Council, Radiation Therapy Curriculum Workgroup, Radiation
Oncology Safety Stakeholders Initiative, and she served two terms as the Radiation Therapy Chapter delegate,
serving as both chair and vice chair. Welcome, Marissa.
Marissa Mangrum: Thank you. Happy to be here.
Melissa Pergola: So first, I want to say congratulations on being elected as president.
Marissa Mangrum: Thank you so much.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah, it's a huge honor.
Marissa Mangrum: Definitely.
Melissa Pergola: And in my mind, it shows the confidence that our members have in you. And so,
our listeners may not know yet, but can you share a little bit about your journey into radiation therapy and
really maybe what ultimately inspired you to pursue leadership in the position?
Marissa Mangrum: Sure. First of all, I am so excited to represent this great profession and, you
know, I think my journey, when I started in it, I had a 1-year-old son, and I was looking for a great
profession. I was in a orientation class that looked at all of the different professions within health care.
And, you know, one day I had a pamphlet, and I read through it, and I was like, "This sounds really
interesting."
Melissa Pergola: Wow.
Marissa Mangrum: So, I went to the program, contacted them. They said, "Go and observe." I went
and observed, and I was like, "This is pretty incredible."
Melissa Pergola: Mm.
Marissa Mangrum: And applied, got in. When I went to my first clinical experience, I was amazed.
It was — I felt like it wasn't just going to be a career; it was going to be a passion of mine. And it wasn't
ever my goal to be in leadership. I got involved, I had a great mentor that I saw involved with the ASRT, and I
think that that led me to want to be a mentor for my students. But when I saw just working, how you can work for
the profession, it just amazed me, and I got involved. And I just love being involved and being a volunteer.
Melissa Pergola: Mm.
Marissa Mangrum: So this was never my end goal, never something I even realized would happen.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Marissa Mangrum: So I am very, very grateful and just love the profession so much, so.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. And see, I love that. Sometimes, Ray, don't you think that the best
leaders are those that that really wasn't what they were striving for, right? Because sometimes people get into
leadership, but all they really wanted was the title or —
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: — whatever other perks. And the fact that this was not your plan —
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: — but you are in the place you're supposed to be, in my mind, makes you an even
greater leader.
Marissa Mangrum: Thank you.
Ray Arambula: Yeah. And it doesn't sound like leadership was part of the initial plan, but your
career was, it sounds very purposeful —
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm.
Ray Arambula: — getting, choosing this path and choosing this journey. You know, every president
brings a unique focus —
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm.
Ray Arambula: — to their term. What motivated you to choose the priorities that you've outlined
for your presidency?
Marissa Mangrum: I think the priorities — I like, you know, I'll use the word passion a lot, and
that's — I always like for something I'm doing to be something I want to do and I'm passionate about.
Ray Arambula: Mm. Yeah.
Marissa Mangrum: So my priorities are personal, and what's great is they fully align, I think,
with the mission —
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Marissa Mangrum: — of the ASRT. So I think that's why I'm so excited about them.
Ray Arambula: Yeah. And ASRT, we've obviously invested in the Be Seen campaign, as you know, and
you're experiencing that work to highlight radiation therapists —
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm.
Ray Arambula: — and medical dosimetrists. What is — why is that visibility so important for the
future of the profession?
Marissa Mangrum: You know, I think it's — the campaign, Be Seen, has been such a great, positive
thing. I mean, wonderful for all the different disciplines. And, you know, when I got into radiation therapy, I
had never heard of it.
Melissa Pergola: Mm.
Marissa Mangrum: And I never heard of medical dosimetry either. So, still, when I would go tell
people what I do, they'd say, "What's that?" Never, never ever heard of it. And, like, when my students come in,
a lot of them hadn't heard of it. Or maybe they had had, you know, a parent, grandparent that had cancer, and
that's how they found out. So, I think it's very important to show that and let people know who we are and what
we do.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Ray Arambula: Yeah, and I think when people start to understand what we do, they can probably
see themselves in it —
Melissa Pergola: Mm. Mm.
Ray Arambula: — as well.
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: So, I want to shift gears a little bit, first, and sort of mention the fact
that I love your jacket.
Marissa Mangrum: Thank you.
Melissa Pergola: [laughs]
Marissa Mangrum: Yeah, this was an accident. [laughs]
Melissa Pergola: So, if you're not watching, you need to watch and figure out why I said I love
Marissa's jacket.
Marissa Mangrum: [laughs]
Ray Arambula: I apparently did not get the memo.
Melissa Pergola: You didn't. You know, your shirt's a little close.
Marissa Mangrum: [laughs]
Ray Arambula: It’s —
Melissa Pergola: I mean, it's in the family.
Ray Arambula: I was trying.
Melissa Pergola: It's in the family. [laughs] So, but seriously, I really do want to shift
gears. I want to talk about one of your priorities, and I think it is significantly important. It's important
not only to the profession, but recognizing that we are human beings as well. So, one of your priorities looks
at mental health and burnout prevention.
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: And I really want to know, why did that feel especially important for our
profession at this time?
Marissa Mangrum: Like I mentioned, I am passionate about this, and this is — it's a multifaceted
answer to this. I mean, there are multiple things I could say. I've been affected by, you know, loss of parents.
And you go in and you treat the same thing your parents passed away from, like, the same day or the next week —
Melissa Pergola: Goodness.
Marissa Mangrum: — that they're fight — so, I mean, I know everybody is having struggles.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Marissa Mangrum: It's not just a loss. It's stress. It's things. And it's just compounded now.
Melissa Pergola: Mm-hmm.
Marissa Mangrum: And, you know, we spend eight hours at least in the clinic, treating patients,
giving everything to them that we have.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Marissa Mangrum: And, you know, that's what we do. We're professionals. But what about when we
go home? Like, that's a big deal too.
Ray Arambula: Right.
Marissa Mangrum: You — that's going to affect how you are as a professional. So that's the
mental health piece that I am very — I want people to know that we see them as a whole person, not just what
they do at —
Ray Arambula: That's good.
Marissa Mangrum: — for that eight-to-five.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Marissa Mangrum: And, you know, I just think that's so important. I'll go back to saying, you
know, I don't think you — you know the saying you can't pour from an empty cup, right?
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Marissa Mangrum: So if we're caring for our patients, we need that, to be able to have that when
we're not there. Things might not always be great —
Melissa Pergola: Mm-hmm.
Marissa Mangrum: — you know, in situations. So, I just think it's very important right now.
Ray Arambula: I love that we are intentional about openly discussing it —
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm.
Ray Arambula: — you know, as a professional priority.
Melissa Pergola: That's important.
Ray Arambula: It makes a difference in what we do and how we come to work each day.
Marissa Mangrum: And I think one of the things with students, the younger generations, they're
more in touch with that —
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Ray Arambula: Yeah.
Marissa Mangrum: — than we are, and I see that. And they are the ones entering the field.
Melissa Pergola: Mm-hmm.
Marissa Mangrum: So I think we need to have that space —
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Marissa Mangrum: — that's comfortable for them. I think when they come, and they talk about it
very openly.
Melissa Pergola: Mm.
Marissa Mangrum: And it's great. We're being vulnerable. We're being — so I think we need to
address it —
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Marissa Mangrum: — for them.
Melissa Pergola: And I think they're more open —
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: — to taking advantage of resources and talking about it, like you said. So, can
you tell us a little bit about sort of the brick-and-mortar of what this presidential priority is going to look
like?
Marissa Mangrum: It's going to look like finding some research-based tools —
Melissa Pergola: Mm-hmm.
Marissa Mangrum: — that are going to help the profession, to help individuals, so they can, you
know, take advantage of those. And then it's going to also be providing tools for leadership —
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Marissa Mangrum: — in management, in the clinics, so they can form that environment for the
technologists, for the therapists within our profession. You know, I know there's a lot of burnout right now,
right? To help prevent that. So I'm really excited about that because it's going to be, you know, great tools
that will be available.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Ray Arambula: You highlighted, mentioned some of these tools kind of at a practical level, for
both individual and leadership side of things. Do you hear that from the leadership side, that they're looking
for tools and resources to help on this side of the profession, this area of the profession?
Marissa Mangrum: There are some things out there, and I do like how hospitals and different
clinics, they are forming, like, wellness departments or even programs —
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Marissa Mangrum: — for, as a whole. I think that's a wonderful direction. But sometimes with it
being a big hospital oversight or maybe a bigger thing, it's not reaching —
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Marissa Mangrum: — as well. It's more like the individuals taking advantage of it rather than
maybe the leadership.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Marissa Mangrum: So I think if it's pointed, saying, "Hey, these are some pinpointed things you
can do that's research-based — "
Melissa Pergola: Mm.
Marissa Mangrum: " — that it will help," I think that'll make it more usable for —
Ray Arambula: Yeah, definitely.
Marissa Mangrum: — what we need as a profession.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah, and there's two things that I really love about this in your vision. So,
one, the research that you mention is, it's looking at health care tools, but it's also trying to get down to
medical imaging and radiation therapy tools, right? So it's going to be very relevant.
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: The other thing that I was just thinking about as we're talking, with Ray's
question about our hospitals and institutions and leadership realizing they need to do this — like you said,
there are some big initiatives that are happening.
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: But I also think, having been in hospital administration, sometimes you're just
grinding day by day, and you may not even realize that it is your responsibility to create that culture —
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: — to decrease burnout and to increase satisfaction. So, I think maybe a next
step we hadn't talked about yet is what is the communication plan —
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: — particularly to leadership and to centers, whether they're hospital,
outpatient, to let the managers know, "Hey, this is here, and this is really part of your job." Because I know
it's hard. I know they're burnt out, too, but they have to understand — and I think this is why your vision of
there being a whole piece for leadership is so significant. They have to understand that you set that tone —
Ray Arambula: Yeah.
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: — and you're creating the tools for them. So, I think we need to even sort of
flesh out more, what does that look like?
Marissa Mangrum: Yeah, definitely.
Melissa Pergola: How do we, like, have a flashing sign, get that message out there?
Marissa Mangrum: Because you don't want it to be something else that's just another thing you
have to do.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Marissa Mangrum: Like, you know, the administration says you need to do this now. You don't want
it to be forced. You know, it's got to be something that's wanted and — completely understand that, you know,
everybody's burnt out. The leadership's burnt out, you know? And figuring out how we can put those little
things. Maybe it's just putting some signs up that say, "Here's some resources, and here are some things that
you can look at," and, like, somebody can just go home, maybe do a QR code and they can pull it up on their own
and have those resources. So making it usable and easy, so it's not, doesn't feel like it's a burden.
Melissa Pergola: So for your second priority, you've highlighted new education around cancer
education and emerging therapies.
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: So where do you see the greatest opportunity for growth in this area?
Marissa Mangrum: Well, I think with the field of radiation therapy, it changes so quickly, and
it's advancing so quickly. You know, things like theranostics —
Melissa Pergola: Mm-hmm.
Marissa Mangrum: — that are merging the different disciplines together. I think it's very
important to look at this and to provide those resources for our therapists to have advancement or opportunities
to grow within our field.
Text on screen: To shape the future of advancement opportunities for radiation therapists and
raise their public profile, ASRT will develop new education modules focused on cancer education and emerging
therapies, produce Be Seen radiation therapist and medical dosimetrist commercials and spearhead initiatives to
promote radiation therapist career growth and development opportunities.
Ray Arambula: Now I'm going to switch gears.
Marissa Mangrum: OK.
All: [laugh]
Ray Arambula: You just have so many great priorities. Your third priority is about making ASRT
an indispensable resource for students.
Marissa Mangrum: Yes.
Ray Arambula: Which, I love that. So why is student engagement as critical to the future of the
profession?
Marissa Mangrum: I, being a former, a student that went to my first Radiation Therapy Conference
as a student and was bright-eyed, I remember having that feeling like, "This is incredible" —
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Marissa Mangrum: — and carrying that on in my volunteer — I am, I love the students. I love —
they just inspire me. That's what, you know, I work with students every day. Coming to the annual meeting [ASRT
Annual Governance and House of Delegates Meeting] and seeing the students in the Student to Leadership
Development Program, they have such a passion. And they just, like, it just is a great feeling. So I think it's
very important to bring them on the ride, make them feel like they're part of our team, make it inviting for
them —
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Marissa Mangrum: — and, so they want this to be their home, right? To make it comfortable for
them. So it's so important for me to provide those resources for them.
Ray Arambula: Well, and students just aren't the future of the profession. I think they're
shaping the profession too, so.
Marissa Mangrum: Oh yeah. Definitely.
Ray Arambula: What do you hope students and educators will experience differently as ASRT builds
more of these opportunities and resources for things like peer connection and involvement and outreach?
Marissa Mangrum: I want them to understand that we couldn't — this profession wouldn't be here
without them.
Ray Arambula: Mm, yeah, that’s good.
Marissa Mangrum: Right? You have your educators, that, you have to have your educators to, you
know, educate the students that are coming in that are going to be in our profession. So I think that's so
important, and for them to know that we want to give them the resources, and the resources are available.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Marissa Mangrum: And, you know, there are so many things to take advantage of, and that the, to
become professionals, and for students to get that professional development, all those things, I think is really
important.
Melissa Pergola: Can you talk a little bit about how you're involving students at the Radiation
Therapy Conference?
Marissa Mangrum: We're going to be doing posters.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Marissa Mangrum: And so it'll be a poster contest, and very excited for them to come. It's the
first time. And just so excited to see what they bring and to highlight their work. And I think the students,
they get this, like, sense of achievement, like, "Wow, I can do this."
Because I bring my students to the Radiation Therapy Conference every year, and they see, you know, all the great
lectures, and I just want them to be able to take part in that. "You can do these things." They, in class,
they're doing lectures for me that are 30 minutes long. Like, "You guys can do these things for our profession."
Melissa Pergola: Well, I think it's amazing, because when I was a student, we did have to. Like,
we were required to, for our state conference.
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: And it was a big deal for us every year. Like, we were excited to go. I never
won.
Ray Arambula and Marissa Mangrum: [laugh]
Ray Arambula: That says something.
Melissa Pergola: I know, Ray. I never won. But it does. It lets them know that they can do
research, they can make a difference.
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: And then to be able to display that and show it —
Ray Arambula: Yeah, how cool.
Melissa Pergola: I just, I love that priority. I absolutely love it.
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: And we're going to pilot it in 2027 at the Radiation Therapy Conference, right?
Marissa Mangrum: Yes.
Melissa Pergola: OK. Yeah. And then one more thing with students. I believe you might be doing
another recording today. What's that initiative?
Marissa Mangrum: So we're going to be doing a podcast that is focused on them —
Melissa Pergola: Oh.
Ray Arambula: How cool.
Marissa Mangrum: — and the things that are important to them, and it's going to be, it's going
to be great.
Melissa Pergola: Oh.
Marissa Mangrum: It's going to be great to share.
Ray Arambula: I anticipate their numbers are going to be much higher than ours.
Melissa Pergola: Oh, way higher.
Ray Arambula: Yeah.
Melissa Pergola: Way higher. I started to be a jerk and say they're a lot better than you, Ray.
But they're a lot better than me, so. [laughs]
Ray Arambula: [laughs] Us together. It's a good thing, though.
Melissa Pergola: It is good.
Ray Arambula: It's what we want to see.
Melissa Pergola: I'm excited to watch it. I'm very excited to watch it.
Ray Arambula: Yeah. It'll be exciting.
Melissa Pergola: So, as we sort of wrap up, I want you to kind of reflect on the three
priorities that you have: mental health, professional advancement, student engagement. And I guess my question
is, what bigger message do you hope members take away from your presidency?
Marissa Mangrum: As I mentioned at the beginning, these are personal to me.
Melissa Pergola: Mm.
Marissa Mangrum: But it's not about me. It's focused on them. It's focused on, you know,
advancement, on, you know, what's behind them as professionals, growth. You know, all of those things are about
them. And I want them to know that that's my focus —
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Marissa Mangrum: — is to make things hopefully better for them, and to get that feedback from
them.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. Spoken as a true servant leader.
Marissa Mangrum: [laughs]
Ray Arambula: Yeah. I love that you look inward and try to do things outwardly for your
leadership.
Marissa Mangrum: Oh, thank you. So, Ray, what game do you have for us today? I know you have
something up your sleeve.
Ray Arambula: I always have —
Marissa Mangrum: You always do.
Ray Arambula: — something up my sleeve.
Melissa Pergola: Uh-huh.
Ray Arambula: And, you know, I thought this was a great intellectual conversation, and we don't
need any more intellectual-ness here, so.
Melissa Pergola and Marissa Mangrum: [laugh]
Melissa Pergola: See, and I thought this was getting ready to be, like, really high, you know,
classy. No, huh?
Ray Arambula: No, no, no, no, no.
Melissa Pergola: OK.
Ray Arambula: We're actually going to play a game on my phone, and it's called Heads Up.
Melissa Pergola: OK.
Ray Arambula: Have you ever played it?
Melissa Pergola: Is that where you put, like, a word here?
Ray Arambula: Put the phone on your head and —
Marissa Mangrum: OK.
Melissa Pergola: OK.
Ray Arambula: Yeah. Kind of like charades, so.
Melissa Pergola: OK.
Ray Arambula: Here's how it works. We'll choose a category. You have three categories to choose
from.
Melissa Pergola: [laughs]
Ray Arambula: So the person guessing will place the phone on their forehead so everyone else can
see the word —
Melissa Pergola: OK.
Ray Arambula: — but they can't. The other person will give clues to help them guess what's on
the screen.
Melissa Pergola: OK.
Ray Arambula: So if they get it right, you tilt your phone down. OK?
Melissa Pergola: OK.
Ray Arambula: So that means you've got it right. If you want — if you're stuck and you want to
pass, you tilt the phone up. So, let's have Marissa go first. So Marissa, you'll be the first person to guess.
Marissa Mangrum: OK.
Melissa Pergola: Look at Marissa’s face. [laughs]
Ray Arambula: So you'll hold the phone on your head, OK? So the three categories are Totally
'80s, Act It Out or ASRT Buzzwords.
Melissa Pergola: What you want?
Marissa Mangrum: I'll do the '80s.
Melissa Pergola: OK.
Ray Arambula: You want to do the '80s?
Melissa Pergola: Oh, Lord. OK, get ready. Three, two, one.
Ray Arambula: One.
Text on phone screen: Andrew Dice Clay
Ray Arambula: [imitating] "Ey, yo! Ey."
Melissa Pergola: [laughs] Comedian.
Ray Arambula: Um.
Melissa Pergola: Um.
Marissa Mangrum: Oh, um —
Ray Arambula: Yeah, late night.
Melissa Pergola: Las Vegas.
Ray Arambula: Las Vegas.
Melissa Pergola: You roll —
Ray Arambula: You roll the —
Marissa Mangrum: Andrew Dice Clay.
Ray Arambula: Yes.
Melissa Pergola: Nice.
Text on phone screen: Pet Rock
Ray Arambula: Oh.
Melissa Pergola: Oh. Um, uh.
Ray Arambula: You have this at home. It's not a human, but a —
Melissa Pergola: And it would be like a dog or a cat.
Ray Arambula: Cat.
Marissa Mangrum: Pet?
Ray Arambula: OK.
Melissa Pergola: Or a bird. Pet.
Ray Arambula: And then what's something that you find out in the desert on the ground?
Melissa Pergola: Collectable. It was, like, a collectable thing in the '80s.
Marissa Mangrum: Oh, um.
Ray Arambula: It’s not a — yeah.
Melissa Pergola: Not a boulder, but a —
Ray Arambula: Not a cobble, but a —
Marissa Mangrum: A pet rock.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Ray Arambula: Yes.
Text on phone screen: New Kids on the Block
Melissa Pergola: Oh, boy band.
Ray Arambula: [vocalizes]
Melissa Pergola: I think they were at the Sphere [venue in Las Vegas].
Ray Arambula: How do I, why do I know this song?
Melissa Pergola: Were they at the Sphere recently?
Marissa Mangrum: Backstreet Boys?
Ray Arambula: No.
Melissa Pergola: No. Oh, that was —
Ray Arambula: [sings] The right stuff, uh —
Melissa Pergola: [laughs]
Marissa Mangrum: Oh, New Kids on the Block.
Ray Arambula: Yes.
Melissa Pergola: Ray is singing. I can’t.
Ray Arambula: [laughs] Why do I know that?
Text on phone screen: Child’s Play
Melissa Pergola: You have these little ones.
Ray Arambula: Chucky. Chucky.
Melissa Pergola: Oh, time's up.
Ray Arambula: Time's up.
Melissa Pergola: Chucky?
Ray Arambula: Yeah. You — Child's Play? No?
Marissa Mangrum: So New Kids on the Block was my first concert.
Melissa Pergola: Get out.
Ray Arambula: That's what, you’ve got three —
Marissa Mangrum: With Milli Vanilli.
Melissa Pergola: Get out. [laughs]
Ray Arambula: Really?
Marissa Mangrum: Who has the, the —
Ray Arambula: Milli Vanilli? Wow.
Marissa Mangrum: Yes. They were the, like, intro show.
Melissa Pergola: My first concert was Menudo.
Marissa Mangrum: Woah.
Ray Arambula: What? No way.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. Oh, I love Menudo.
Ray Arambula: With Ricky Martin?
Melissa Pergola: Oh my God, I love Menudo, yes.
Ray Arambula: OK. So we have three categories to choose from.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Ray Arambula: Totally '80s.
Melissa Pergola: Uh-huh.
Ray Arambula: Act It Out.
Melissa Pergola: Mm-hmm.
Ray Arambula: Or ASRT Buzzwords.
Melissa Pergola: OK, so this is probably going to be very embarrassing for me, because I might
not get them right —
Marissa Mangrum: [laughs]
Melissa Pergola: — but I'm going to do ASRT Buzzwords.
Ray Arambula: Hey, no pressure.
Melissa Pergola: It's stuff that, I don't know, people are saying —
Ray Arambula: It's just —
Melissa Pergola: — behind my back? Is that what this is? [laughs]
Ray Arambula: It's just the whole world watching. There's no pressure.
Melissa Pergola: [laughs] That you know nothing about your organization.
Marissa Mangrum: [laughs]
Ray Arambula: Right. Here we go.
Melissa Pergola: Ahh!
Ray Arambula: Three, two, one.
Text on phone screen: Scanner [ASRT member newsmagazine]
Ray Arambula: Magazine.
Melissa Pergola: Scanner.
Ray Arambula: Yes. Go down.
Melissa Pergola: Oh. [laughs]
Text on phone screen: Be Seen
Marissa Mangrum: Campaign.
Ray Arambula: The biggest campaign.
Melissa Pergola: Be Seen.
Ray Arambula: Yes.
Text on phone screen: Leadership Academy
Ray Arambula: Once a year here at the office —
Melissa Pergola: Annual report. Oh. Once a year at the office?
Ray Arambula: Here at the office.
Melissa Pergola: Christmas party.
Ray Arambula: No.
Melissa Pergola: No, that's not the office.
Ray Arambula: It’s, um —
Marissa Mangrum: [laughs] People from all over the country come in —
Ray Arambula: Education.
Marissa Mangrum: — to learn skills.
Melissa Pergola: Oh, the Leadership Academy?
Ray Arambula: Yes.
Melissa Pergola: Oh.
Text on phone screen: Practice Standards [for Medical Imaging and Radiation Therapy]
Marissa Mangrum: Committee I was a part of.
Ray Arambula: Yeah.
Marissa Mangrum: Or council.
Melissa Pergola: Uh, PSC [Practice Standards Council].
Ray Arambula: Yeah.
Text on phone screen: Scanner
Ray Arambula: We already did that. Pass it.
Text on phone screen: SLDP [Student to Leadership Development Program]
Ray Arambula: The students are involved.
Melissa Pergola: SLDP.
Ray Arambula: Yes.
Melissa Pergola: Student to Leadership Development Program.
Text on phone screen: CE [continuing education] Library
Ray Arambula: This is where you get credits. This is where —
Melissa Pergola: CE. Continuing education. RFA [Request for Approval].
Ray Arambula: Yeah — CE.
Melissa Pergola: Conference.
Ray Arambula: What do we call it when you go to the website?
Melissa Pergola: What?
Marissa Mangrum: What's something that has a bunch of books in it?
Ray Arambula: Time's up.
Melissa Pergola: Oh, the bookstore?
Ray Arambula: The CE Library.
Melissa Pergola: The CE Library. [laughs]
Ray Arambula: [laughs]
Marissa Mangrum: I almost said the bar.
All: [laughing and talking over one another — 24:37]
Marissa Mangrum: The library. [laughs]
Ray Arambula: That would've been good. You got six.
Melissa Pergola: Yay!
Ray Arambula: Congratulations. Good job.
Melissa Pergola: That, OK, so I don't feel like I totally failed. OK.
Ray Arambula: All right.
Melissa Pergola: Which one you want to do? ASRT or '80s?
Ray Arambula: Yeah, I lived through the '80s. I'm an expert on all things '80s.
Melissa Pergola: Oh, OK.
Ray Arambula: I guess I'll go — I'm going to do Totally '80s. I was a product of the '80s, so I
should know this one. This should be easy for me.
Melissa Pergola: You were born in the '80s?
Ray Arambula: Um, no, I was actually born in the '70s.
Melissa Pergola and Marissa Mangrum: [laugh]
Melissa Pergola: Three, two, one.
Text on phone screen: Jessica Rabbit
Melissa Pergola: [laughs] What's the name of that movie?
Marissa Mangrum: Roger —
Ray Arambula: Roger Rabbit.
Melissa Pergola: But the girl.
Marissa Mangrum: Girl.
Ray Arambula: Oh, Jessica Rabbit.
Melissa Pergola: Yep.
Text on phone screen: Honey, I Shrunk the Kids
Melissa Pergola: Oh, little bitty people. They weren't little bitty people before.
Ray Arambula: Smurfs.
Melissa Pergola: No.
Ray Arambula: Care Bears.
Melissa Pergola: No. Something was done to them to do it.
Ray Arambula: Transformers.
Marissa Mangrum: It was a movie.
Ray Arambula: Oh, uh.
Marissa Mangrum: Um.
Ray Arambula: Pass.
Marissa Mangrum: Not — oh.
Text on phone screen: The Terminator
Marissa Mangrum: Oh, what —
Melissa Pergola: What's his name?
Marissa Mangrum: "You will" — or, "I will be back."
Ray Arambula: Oh, Arnold, Terminator.
Marissa Mangrum: Yeah.
Melissa Pergola: There you go.
Text on phone screen: Punky Brewster
Melissa Pergola: Oh, little girl star.
Marissa Mangrum: Oh, colorful.
Ray Arambula: My Little Pony.
Melissa Pergola: No.
Marissa Mangrum: No, girl.
Melissa Pergola: Female star.
Ray Arambula: Barbie.
Melissa Pergola: No, she had her television show, a sitcom. So if you think somebody's
obnoxious, you call them a —
Ray Arambula: Brat.
All: [laugh]
Melissa Pergola: It rhymes with unk. It rhymes with unk.
Ray Arambula: Oh, punk. Punk, I never —
Melissa Pergola: So who is she?
Ray Arambula: Oh, oh, Punky Brewster.
Melissa Pergola and Marissa Mangrum: [laugh]
Ray Arambula: Oh. OK, well.
Melissa Pergola: How many did you get right?
Ray Arambula: I don't know.
Melissa Pergola: You just ended. You just, like, abruptly ended on that.
Ray Arambula: Did I? Oh, I got four right.
Melissa Pergola: OK.
Ray Arambula: OK. Marissa, you got three. I got four. Melissa got six. I mean, the ones —
Melissa Pergola: But mine was ASRT.
Ray Arambula: Yours was ASRT.
Melissa Pergola: So that's not really fair.
Ray Arambula: Anyways, thank you all for playing.
Melissa Pergola: You're welcome.
Ray Arambula: It was a fun game.
We'll be right back after this short message.
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Melissa Pergola: Well, now that we're done with the game, guess what time it is?
Ray Arambula: Is it time for our We See You segment?
Melissa Pergola: It is.
Ray Arambula: All righty. Let's get this rolled up. OK.
Jennifer Clayton: Hello, Dr. Pergola. My name is Jennifer Clayton, and I am the dean of nursing
and allied health at Walla Walla Community College. And my question for you is regarding cultivating future
leaders. So I'm noticing more technologists are apprehensive about going into leadership, particularly about the
people management side. So what have you seen that works well with encouraging imaging professionals to consider
these roles? Because my concern is if we don't have leaders with imaging background, then decisions are made for
us instead of with us. So I look forward to hearing your response. Thank you.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. Thank you, Jennifer. That's a great question. You know, we talk about how
leadership requires a different skill set, at least somewhat, from what our technical skills are and even our
patient care skills. And I think maybe sometimes we talk about that being so different too much. Some of the
skills that we have as medical imaging and radiation therapy professionals absolutely translate to leadership.
But we know that there are other soft skills, as you mentioned, people skills, that people need to develop.
And I think we're still in a time where we've seen the Peter principle, where people were promoted into
leadership because they were really good at what they did before. And maybe these students have seen people fail
because they were promoted for that reason but really didn't have those other leadership skills. So, for me, it
is about making sure that we develop that next generation of leaders. Don't make them fearful about people
management and that side of leadership, but give them the skills.
And one of my favorite tools I actually still get to teach in the Leadership Academy on campus every year is
called the Leadership Challenge. And it really is — it breaks down five exemplary practices of leaders, and
there are assessments around it, and it's based on 40 years of evidence-based research. And I think it takes
some of the mystery around being a good leader away and helps particularly students understand that this is
something that they can learn. And there's even a student version. So for educators listening, I highly
recommend that you get the student assessment and do that with them so they see that regardless of whether
that's something that is comfortable to them naturally, that they can be great leaders.
But I'd really like to know what Ray and Marissa think.
Ray Arambula: For me, one of the things that's helped is when people called those things out in
me —
Melissa Pergola: Mm.
Ray Arambula: — some of those leadership qualities and traits that they saw in me that I really
didn't see in myself. And then like you mentioned, there are things that like, you know — being calm under
pressure —
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Ray Arambula: — or helping support others on your teams. I think things like those really stand
out. And when you tell people those things and they recognize them, it can go a long way. I think managing
people is just hard, but I think those are things you can learn, you know? With developing those skills and, you
know, getting resources by your side, as well as good mentors to have by your side as well.
Marissa Mangrum: Well, and I like to think about it from the students’ sides. I tell my students
that from — they're going to become leaders a lot quicker because of the workforce aging.
Melissa Pergola: That’s true.
Marissa Mangrum: So giving them those resources and letting them know that, you know, they can
do this. And I think that will help, maybe not immediately, but that plants that seed of, that they can do it,
and giving, incorporating courses, things about managing and just having those resources available so that they
can just know they can do it.
Ray Arambula: Yeah.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. Yeah.
Marissa Mangrum: It's important, that confidence.
Melissa Pergola: Yes. That strikes me, what both of you said. A lot of it is mentors and having
people just recognize that in you. Because sometimes we don't realize that we would be good at that. And I love
that.
And I love this question, Jennifer, because it fits right into everything that Marissa's presidency is about too.
Right? What can we do for students, and how can we develop students? So thank you for that.
Marissa Mangrum: Yes. You know what they say: Don't put yourself in a bad position —
Ray Arambula and Melissa Pergola: — stay up to date with “The RAD Position.”
Ray Arambula: Registration is open for ASRT Radiation Therapy Conference. RTC serves as an
international gathering of radiation therapists, medical dosimetrists and radiation oncology experts who are at
the forefront of propelling innovation and shaping the future for the profession.
Conference attendees can earn up to 15 continuing education credits with access to more than 60 courses and
workshops. In addition, RTC is an amazing opportunity to expand your network by connecting with radiation
therapy and medical dosimetry professionals from around the world. Your registration also provides you with
access to the ASRT and American Society for Radiation Oncology exhibit halls.
Visit asrt.org/RTC to register and learn more about this
incredible event.
Melissa Pergola: Woo, we've talked about a lot. We really have. Marissa, thank you so much for
being here. It was just such a meaningful conversation, and it gives me excitement and hope for the next year,
and I hope that our listeners and our viewers are as excited as I know I am and the staff is, all of ASRT is,
about you being our president.
Marissa Mangrum: Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be the next president of the ASRT and to
move these priorities forward. I'm just so excited about this next year.
Ray Arambula: And thank you for being such a good sport on the game.
Melissa Pergola: [laughs]
Ray Arambula: Clearly Melissa cheated.
Marissa Mangrum: Well, I was the loser. Oh, man.
Ray Arambula: Well, Melissa cheated. She had it easy.
Melissa Pergola: What? You picked the categories.
Ray Arambula: I know, but.
Melissa Pergola: [laughs]
Ray Arambula: You should know. You should've scored higher.
Melissa Pergola and Marissa Mangrum: [laugh]
Melissa Pergola: All right. I'll take that.
Ray Arambula: [laughs] But thank you for joining us today. We love hearing more about your
journey and just the purpose behind it and the passion that you carry.
Marissa Mangrum: Thank you.
Melissa Pergola: And we'd like to thank all of you for listening and for watching, and don't
forget to subscribe and like.
Ray Arambula: Yes. And you can also email us at [email protected]. We'd love to hear your stories, so let us know
how you discovered us, and continue to watch us and support us.
Melissa Pergola: And to all our medical imaging and radiation therapy professionals, be seen —
Ray Arambula: — and stay rad.