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difference.
This is “The RAD Position” with ASRT CEO and Executive Director Melissa Pergola, a
podcast for medical imaging and radiation therapy professionals.
Melissa Pergola: Hey there, and welcome back to “The RAD Position” podcast. I'm your host, ASRT CEO
Melissa Pergola.
Ray Arambula: And I am her podcast partner, Ray Arambula.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. And today we are doing an episode called “Friends of the Profession.” Pretty
exciting, huh?
Ray Arambula: Yeah. This is, like, a double feature. I should have brought my popcorn and candy.
Melissa Pergola: [laughs]
Ray Arambula: Exciting.
Melissa Pergola: It is, it is. And our first guest is really, really cool. She's done some
absolutely amazing things. And so I would like to introduce Chaundria Singleton.
Chaundria Singleton: Hello, you guys. Thank you so much for having me, and I'm excited to be on the
podcast.
Ray Arambula: Welcome.
Melissa Pergola: Oh, we are excited to have you. So, Chaundria, I'm going to start with a little bit
of an introduction for our listeners and viewers.
Chaundria Singleton is a nationally recognized radiologic technologist educator and content creator with 20 years in
medical imaging. She is the face of the MRI [magnetic resonance imaging] technologist for the Be Seen commercial, an
Emory University graduate certified in radiography, MR and CT [computed tomography], and also with mammography
training from MTMI [Medical Technology Management Institute]. And she's the founder and host of “A Couple of Rad
Techs” podcast, which is Top 5% globally, and author of Rachel the Radiographer. And it is one of the first
children's books introducing radiologic technology as a STEM [science, technology, engineering and math] career.
Her career spans clinical practice, MR education, management and entrepreneurship, mentoring hundreds of
technologists and amplifying the profession's visibility. Chaundria has been featured in The Washington Post, GoodRx
and Meditech Today, and her platform reaches over 85,000 professionals and followers worldwide. Very impressive.
Ray Arambula: Very. Wow.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah, so welcome, Chaundria. We're so excited to have you.
Chaundria Singleton: I am so excited to be here and to meet Ray. This is my first time meeting Ray.
Melissa Pergola: [laughs]
Ray Arambula: It's a pleasure.
Melissa Pergola: Uhh, Ray's all right. He’s all right.
Ray Arambula: I'm just the podcast partner.
Melissa Pergola: Oh, please. [laughs]
Chaundria Singleton: Thank you guys for having me. It's so exciting. I love the podcast. Love that
ASRT is doing a podcast, because I love podcasts, personally.
Ray Arambula: Awesome.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you are an amazing podcaster, so —
Chaundria Singleton: Thank you.
Melissa Pergola: This is going to be a fun and I think probably quite easy episode. Well, to get
started, I would like to learn a little bit about what initially drew you to the field of radiography. But then
probably more importantly, how on earth did that journey from technologist to influencer and even author happen?
Chaundria Singleton: Yeah, it's so funny because I actually started doing hair. I was a
cosmetologist since high school.
Melissa Pergola: Very cool.
Chaundria Singleton: I had my own hair salon since high school. My mother saw the potential in me as
a businesswoman. I have the kind of mother that tells her kids, and I think she actually believes, that we can do
anything, and she convinces us of that, so —
Melissa Pergola: Oh, of course.
Chaundria Singleton: But she's very supportive, and I'm just grateful for a mother like that. And
she wanted her children to have stability and a way to take care of themselves. Even though I was doing fine, she
just felt like having a health care degree would help.
And when I finally — I wound up getting sick. I got ill, and I could no longer take the fumes of the cosmetology
profession. And thank goodness I was taking all those college courses throughout the time. I never stopped going to
school, because I knew I wanted to get a degree in something — I just didn't know what.
And I decided to go to my counselor at the college I was taking the courses at and say, “What else is there besides
nursing?” And she said, “Well, there's something called radiologic technology.” I’d never heard of it. Had no clue.
She said, “They take x-rays.” I said, “Oh, I could do that!”
Well, we had to shadow, and I realized this was something that I used to get done as a kid, but I thought they were
nurses.
Melissa Pergola: See?
Chaundria Singleton: Who knew they were radiologic technologists. And when I shadowed, I said, “Oh,
I can do this! I know exactly who you guys are.” And I just was so excited. I was starting a program. I got
accepted. I was working at night at another job, and I was still living on my own. I don't know how I thought I was
going to work full time at night and go to school full time, but I was going to do it. Well, I really hadn't
recovered from the respiratory illness that I had, and I wound up getting a relapse and got really sick.
Melissa Pergola: Oh, my.
Chaundria Singleton: And thank goodness I have that wonderful mother. And she was like, “Come on
back home, honey, and get yourself together, and then you can continue.” Turns out, I waited that year, but in that
year, it allowed my body to rest.
But this is what I tell people when I make content: If you don't get accepted into a program, it's
not the end of the world. And then the other thing that I tell people on the other side is don't think that being on
a waitlist is a bad thing, because the spot that I gave up opened up for somebody else.
Melissa Pergola: Right. Right.
Chaundria Singleton: So you never know how things work out. Fortunately, it worked out for me that I
used that year to get healthy. I applied to four schools in my area that were reasonably close, and that was my
introduction into radiology. But I got in, figured out how to pay for it, and I'm here today. So from there, I was
actually doing content when the world changed in 2019, 2020. And I was all about health and wellness, and I said,
“Wow, this is an actual business.” [laughs]
Melissa Pergola: [laughs]
Chaundria Singleton: But I picked up on it, because I felt like I had something to say. But I wind
up getting on a cohort with iHeartRadio, and they suggested that my podcast needed to talk solely about radiology.
And my husband said, “I've been trying to tell you — just talk about radiology. Nobody's really talking about it.”
And I did. And that's when the podcast took a turn, and it just shot up after that. And I got more listeners. People
really started to connect the content with the podcast, and I saw a change. And then that's when I invited [ASRT
President] Brandon Smith onto the podcast, because I wanted to know more about the ASRT. There was this big push on
social media and LinkedIn about, you know, voting for different people in the ASRT and, you know, making yourself
seen. And I really wanted to know more about it. So I figured, invite him on my podcast to learn.
And being an author — I always wanted to write a book. And once I got into radiology content creation and started
doing career days, I said, younger people need to know about radiology, and I can't seem to find a book that's
written by us about what we do —
Melissa Pergola: Right.
Chaundria Singleton: — from our perspective, and really educational where people would say, “I want
my child to do that,” or “I want my child to look at that as an option.”
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Chaundria Singleton: And I felt, who better to say that than a technologist?
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. Yeah, so it sounds like that that's what motivates you to use that platform
to advocate and uplift the profession.
Chaundria Singleton: Me personally, I enjoy what I do, imaging, and I think because of the story I
just shared of how I got into it —
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Chaundria Singleton: — it was something that people did for me, to help me to get healthy. For
years, I would get those exams, and I didn't know who they were, and I wish I would've back then. And then come full
circle, and now that's what I do. I just feel like as individuals out there getting exams, they deserve to know who
is doing their exam. The ones that are doing it — they deserve the recognition. It empowers you.
So I just think of that as a radiologic technologist, when people actually say, “Oh, I know what you guys do, and we
love you for it. We thank you for it in health care,” it does make you feel this sense of pride where you kind of
want to sit up and say thank you. [laughs]
Melissa Pergola: [laughs]
Ray Arambula: Well, Chaundria, you have such an inspiring story, and you definitely can tell the
passion come across in the way you tell your story. But I want to know more about the children's book. I can see it
displayed there in the background. What inspired it, and how does it connect to your passion for radiology and
representation in health care?
Chaundria Singleton: It inspired me because I love to write. I love to tell my perspective on
things. And I feel like, being in imaging, I've done so many things within imaging because I wasn't afraid to figure
out what this profession had to offer me. When I first got in, I only thought it was taking x-rays of bones.
Genuinely. That's all I knew, until my first day of clinical. And I walked into clinical and I see radiation
therapists, nuclear medicine techs, and I'm like, “Oh, we’re all in the same umbrella?”
Melissa Pergola: [laughs]
Chaundria Singleton: “This is a possibility for me?” PACS [now known as MIMPS, medical image
management and processing system] wasn't around then. There was no such thing as PACS. And once I kind of learned
about the science of it, and I started rotating, going to MRI and CT, I would go in and just get supplies just so I
could see the machines. I was so fascinated by the different things that this profession could offer. And I said to
myself, “If I only thought it was x-rays when I got in, how many other people don't get in our profession because
they only think it's taking pictures of bones?”
Melissa Pergola: No, it's true.
Chaundria Singleton: And now we have RAs [radiologist assistants]. We have so many things that
people can do. If you're not a patient-centered person and you like data, you've got an opportunity to work in
medical imaging as well. If you are a leader — you want to be reading documents and get into legislation — you can
get into the advocacy side of it. There’s just so many things. Some people are excellent teachers. They're excellent
teachers, instructors. There's a place for you, too.
And when I do career days, I notice when I took my little tester book, I had to beg the students to give it back to
me.
Melissa Pergola: Oh!
Chaundria Singleton: But I find that all the machines resonate with the kids. The story of — and
I've got more stories to come for it — but the story of Rachel the Radiographer, she looks like them. She's the same
size as them.
Ray Arambula: Yeah.
Chaundria Singleton: The teachers now feel like they have something extra to offer to their kids
instead of just being a doctor, being a nurse, being a firefighter. And that's what the last career day, the
teachers told me — the principal said, “Thank you so much for coming.” They were so appreciative. And I was like,
“Well, thank you for inviting me.” They said, “No, really. We polled our kids, and they didn't want doctors and
nurses. They asked for welders, other people in health care. And when your cousin, who's a teacher at this school,
told us you were a radiologic technologist, we said, ‘Please ask her to come.’”
And I just find that people are really interested in what we do. They just don't know how to find out, and we have
the answers. So this book is a tool for me to get in there to the younger people and introduce them and introduce
their parents, introduce guidance counselors, teachers, principals and school administrators, superintendents. And
they're looking at getting this book into their school system. So it's just so many opportunities for this book to
really help us be seen even more.
Melissa Pergola: We are so excited for this segment of the “Friends of the Profession.” We are
actually going to be speaking with Danny Blair, and he has his own podcast. We're going to have so much fun talking
to you about your podcast. And the focus of it, I think, is absolutely brilliant and amazing, and that's
interprofessional education, which we've done some work within the United States, and always need to do more work.
So before we get started, I am going to go ahead and do a little introduction so our listeners and viewers understand
a little bit about your background.
Danny Blair: Thank you.
Melissa Pergola: So Danny Blair entered radiotherapy almost by accident after a teacher suggested
he'd make a great radiographer. He trained at the University of Liverpool and began his career at the Clatterbridge
Cancer Centre, one of the U.K.'s largest cancer hubs and home to a renowned proton beam therapy service for eye
cancer. That's so interesting.
Across a varied career, Danny has always found his way back to the treatment floor — his first love — but he's also
worked in national service analysis, head and neck and neuro pretreatment, chemotherapy and radiotherapy trials,
advanced practice and lecturing on the therapeutic radiography and oncology course at Liverpool.
About three years ago, he moved fully into academia, where he now teaches clinical skills, physics, prostate oncology
and simulation. He has published on student emotional well-being and is currently researching gamification — cool! —
gamification in radiography education. His clinical specialisms include head and neck and prostate oncology. Danny
is also a family man with three teenagers — bless your heart — a passionate Liverpool F.C. [football club] supporter
and a keen musician.
[holds up L.F.C. scarf]
Danny Blair: Oh, there we go. Do you know what, Melissa? I knew there was something I loved about
you.
Melissa Pergola: I've been there. I've actually been to the stadium. It was one of the coolest
things I have ever done. So for those of you who are listening, I actually held up the L.F.C. scarf that I got. I
actually had a jersey, too. I was going to put the jersey on, but I figured I'll just wear the scarf for the
episode. How's that?
Danny Blair: Yes. Perfect.
Melissa Pergola: [chuckles]
Danny Blair: I don't know how two people can make someone feel at home over Zoom, over the Atlantic,
but you've literally made me feel like I am amongst friends. Thank you so much.
Melissa Pergola: That's amazing. So I do want to begin by talking about your podcast. So what is the
origin of the podcast? How did the idea come about?
Danny Blair: We've taught interprofessional — we call it IPL [interprofessional learning]. I know
you guys call it IPE [interprofessional education], so we'll probably interchange with those terms. We've taught IPL
or IPE since I was an undergraduate here. And it's always been sort of poorly attended. It's always been sort of,
you know, there's no assessment, so the students, they're not really — “Oh, well, do we need to go to this? Do we
not need to go to it?” It was maybe a bit poorly scheduled.
And there was a bit of a revamp. The podcast was part of the revamp. We wanted something as a reference. We wanted
something that people could dip in and out of. At the beginning, it was just people who were on courses in our
school, at our university. So at the School of Allied Health Professions and Nursing, we've got nurses, we've got
orthotists, we've got physiotherapists, we've got occupational therapists. We have got diagnostic radiographers and
we've got therapeutic radiographers.
Melissa Pergola: OK.
Danny Blair: We wanted to interview, say, physios and get them to say, what is the big misconception
about physios? Who did they work with the best? Who did they work with the most? Give us some insights and clinical
stories. Get them to ask us whether there's any misconceptions they had about other professions.
So the first six or seven episodes are about each profession, and we talk literally to the students and get them to —
I always say, it's their chance to tell the nation, you know, what's going wrong, so. And therapists [??
unintelligible — 15:53], of course, everybody thinks we're diagnostics or there's lots and lots of misconceptions.
So it plugged into the IPL provision, but in addition to that, we wanted it to be a sort of a chance for the
professions to have their say and tell people what they wanted. You know, a chance for them to right the record.
“You’re a diagnostic radiographer. What do you want people to know about diagnostic radiography?”
And that all happened really quickly, because people like talking about their professions, especially if they've come
into it and they're passionate about it. So we got them into this studio and we had the first six episodes done, and
that's when it sort of started to evolve a little bit after that.
Melissa Pergola: Yes. So that does make sense, because one of the most important benefits of IPL is
that the different professions learn about each other, which increases collaboration and respect. So that makes
sense that that was sort of the first focus. Tell me a little bit about how it evolved then.
Danny Blair: The evolution then turned to a mixture of the students still having those episodes
where we were interviewing people from different professions, but the professions then went wider. Different
universities, different — so we got some pharmacists in from our other university in the city, Liverpool John
Moores. We ended up getting some people in who were from the Cancer Alliance, who were, like, change managers. So we
ended up going really wide in terms of interprofessional professions, and that then led us to two things.
Number 1: expert guests. One of the things around Liverpool is it's a really historic city for health and public
health. We had the first public health officer on the planet. His name was William Henry Duncan. So we ended up
interviewing the current public health officer, and he gave us all the different — how everything fit together, and
he took over during COVID, so that was quite interesting.
We ended up interviewing Professor Tom Solomon, who's head of the global Pandemic Institute here in Liverpool.
They’ve come up with the COVID vaccine and were instrumental in lots of the work there. And he ended up talking
about when he'd treated [British author] Roald Dahl when he was a junior doctor and a book he wrote on that, so that
was quite interesting. So there's lots of those episodes where you've got expert guests now, sort of the, the
interprofessional thread is always running through it.
And then the other strand of the evolution is that we've ended up actually getting students who started on the
podcast to interview other students.
Melissa Pergola: Oh, neat!
Danny Blair: So it's ended up as a student-led podcast now as well.
Melissa Pergola: So I want shift gears just a little bit and talk about interprofessional education
and practice. So I'm curious from your perspective, what are the biggest misconceptions people have about
interprofessional education or interprofessional learning?
Danny Blair: I think the big one is that — OK, so interpersonal learning is obviously a challenge.
You've got to get a load of different people from different professions in the same room together. There's moving
parts with that as well. If they're in different institutions, it's almost impossible. It's hard enough in the same
institution. And then within the same institution, you're limited by what courses you've got.
We've found that the biggest amount of learning does by those people turning and facing each other and then talking
about their professions. “Oh, you do this? Well, we do this.” And that's as valuable as the structured stuff as
well. So getting diagnostics and physios together and them sharing experiences in an unstructured way is really,
really valuable.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. So where do you see the strengths? You just mentioned sort of getting
everyone together face-to-face and discussing what they do. Are there other strengths of the IPL education in the
U.K., and then, on the opposite side, where do you see room for more growth?
Danny Blair: Yeah, so another thing that we do at our university is we introduced an exit award.
It's not assessed, because we didn't think that was fair to add in another assessment for the students. But if our
students attend and — basically attend IPL and get it and engage with it, then they will get the Future Healthcare
Practitioner Plus award —
Melissa Pergola: Wow.
Danny Blair: — which is something that they can show to employers to say, “OK, I've been to this
university in Liverpool. We've done IPL” — anyone can say that — “but now I do have the Future Healthcare
Practitioner Plus award, and I now understand, you know, maybe a little bit more than I would about how the
different professions fit into each other.”
Where there's probably room for maneuver, we think it's all about the scheduling. So the scheduling's really
difficult. It's hard enough scheduling one module on one program. When you try to bring together multiple programs
with all the different timetables — so, we recognized that and this year was the first year we did it, is cancel all
lectures and all activities for all cohorts for either one full day, two full days per semester. IPL used to be one
session every couple of weeks in the morning, and people were on placements. It was difficult to get around that. So
there's a couple of days blocked out where it's just IPL all day for all cohorts.
Melissa Pergola: Nice. Yes.
Danny Blair: In addition to that, we put on a conference, like, an actual IPL conference. So I think
that's where it's going to lie in future, in activities that are going to, like — you guys say that you go to
conferences. Conferences are one of the most valuable exercises that you can ever do. But you are networking, you’re
seeing new things, you’re bringing things back. So we put on a conference, an IPL conference, where students could
actually submit profit papers. We give out a prize for the best paper. Students presented. We had a quiz.
So we’re trying to make sure that we're not just, “Let's go in the classroom. Here's a PowerPoint presentation.” It's
all about trying to get them into things that they're going to be using when they get into the real world. So, it's
that type of thing.
We’re not taking ourselves too seriously and making sure that we're making it fun for the students, but then at the
end, hitting them with the message. And then if they've had a fun session and they get a message at the end of it,
they're going to take that home with them.
Melissa Pergola: That's right. I love it. So everything you're doing is to truly make it immersive
and engage them. And you mentioned the award. I think that's brilliant, because, like you said, it's something that
they can put on their CV, but also when you're striving for an award, it's something that you will be more focused
and that you're excited about. So I really like the award idea.
Ray Arambula: Yeah.
Melissa Pergola: I'm curious — in the U.S., where we do this, oftentimes the different professions
come together around a scenario or a simulation. And then we have heard that probably the most beneficial part is
the reflection at the end. So nursing learned that if they had just stopped and allowed the radiographer to come in
and do the chest x-ray that the patient would've survived, because they were doing what they needed to do, but we
needed the imaging to be able to successfully treat that patient.
And so, is there simulation involved in your IPL, and what do you think about that reflection and the benefit of
that?
Danny Blair: There is some IPL simulation, but if you would've asked me this question two weeks ago,
I would've said that there wasn't. But I've been linking in closely with our simulation team, and they did an IPL
session. That's — I think that's certainly something we could bring in.
Our simulation team here — outstanding. Shout out to Jackie, Barry, Neil, simulation team and the clinical skills
team. They are experts, and they are doing things like — so for our nurses, they do a day that is basically around a
shift. So all the things that you'd have — a handover — they have actors coming in. They've got a full simulation
suite, a little flat for the occupational therapist. You've got a therapy kitchen, something called the FBI room
where you have — maybe you are in with an actor and everybody else is behind the two-way mirror. So, I think you're
probably right. I think that could be a good thing.
And reflection — we teach lots of reflection in our programs. That could be something that we certainly grow. Because
you're right. You know, learning's one thing, and maybe as practitioners we take reflection for granted because,
being in clinical situations, things have happened. We almost do it without thinking, don't we?
Melissa Pergola: Yes, yes.
Danny Blair: Oh, I'll just have a little — I'll have 10 minutes and I'll think to myself, What could
I have done better there? But for people that have never done it before, it's a skill that needs to be sort of
practiced.
Melissa Pergola: Yes. Yeah, it's interesting. I think that having the discussions is important, but
being put in a scenario where you're just functioning the way you function.
Another thing that I've heard: There was a scenario where, there was a sim here in the U.S., and while I might not
have thought, while I was discussing with other professionals, what I do, that I can do CPR, the patient needed CPR.
And nursing was hollering for other nurses, and the radiographer was like, “I can step in. I know how to do CPR.”
And the nurse was like, “You do CPR?” And they're like, “Of course we do CPR.” Right? So those type of simulations
where you step in and do what you do, you might show the other professionals skills you have that you really
wouldn't have thought to talk about.
Danny Blair: Learn about the professions, if you're sitting down and telling someone. But when you
get into a scenario, then you're going to realize people have got skills that you might be able to need. And as you
said, it's not being dramatic to say that that could save somebody's life in the future.
Melissa Pergola: That's right. That's right. Yeah, so as we wrap up, first I want to thank you for
what you do, because I think it's so incredibly important. I think everything that you do ultimately will help
patients. You mentioned you could save a patient's life, and this collaboration and understanding each other will
lead to higher quality, safer health care. So again, I want to thank you, and thank you for what you're doing. But I
also want to know, is there anything that you would like to tell our listeners and viewers sort of before we wrap
up?
Danny Blair: The last thing that I'd like to say is basically an advertisement for the city of
Liverpool, obviously, which the university sits in. University of Liverpool's a fantastic institution, and it sits
within, in my opinion, the best city in the world. So if people want to visit or if people want to contact me about
Liverpool, I'd be more than welcome for you to get in touch with the podcast team. And I'll give you the full roll
down on Liverpool, both in its public health and in its current wonderful state.
Melissa Pergola: So now we have Dr. Sal Martino. Woo! Yay. [chuckles] So Sal Martino retired as ASRT
CEO in January 2023, after 13 years in the position and 23 years at ASRT. Prior to ASRT, he spent 20 years in
academia at Hostos Community College for the City University of New York, where he held several positions, including
program director for radiologic technology and associate dean of academic affairs.
In addition to his radiologic technology education, Sal also received a master's degree in health education and a
doctorate in higher education from Columbia University. During his 45 years in the profession, he was a published
author in scientific journals, including Radiologic Technology, and gave professional presentations at conferences
both here and in the U.S. internationally.
Welcome, Sal.
Sal Martino: Thank you for having me.
Melissa Pergola: Oh, we're so excited to have you.
Sal Martino: It's nice to be back in the building.
Melissa Pergola: [laughs] Yes.
Ray Arambula: You served as ASRT CEO for many years, helped shape its modern identity. When you look
back, what do you consider your proudest accomplishment during your tenure?
Sal Martino: You know, it's really interesting. That sounds like it's a really easy question.
[chuckles] But it's really the hardest one. Most of my accomplishments were through other people that worked for me.
Melissa Pergola: Hmm.
Sal Martino: I mean, whether it was the museum, online education, affiliate assistance. I mean, all
these kinds of things I hate to take, you know, say, “Oh, well, that was my greatest accomplishment,” because it
wasn't just me.
So I thought about it a lot, and I think my greatest accomplishment was the goal that I set out for myself when I
took the job: Make sure you leave this place better than you found it.
Melissa Pergola: Oh, I love that.
Sal Martino: As simple as that.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Sal Martino: You know? And so every time these things would come up, I would say, “OK, is this going
to make the organization stronger? Is this going to benefit members? Will the employees like it?” I mean, all these
kinds of things went into it.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Sal Martino: And so, yeah, I think my greatest accomplishment, that by any objective measures, I
left the place better than I found it.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. Wow. I think about just you being a mentor and following you, quite honestly,
is very scary. Because you said you did this through other people, but I believe it was because of your leadership
and your ability to get things done through and with others and remove obstacles for them and just be the leader
that they needed is a big part of the successes.
Sal Martino: But I, you know, I just had great, great staff. I mean, great senior team members,
great directors and whatever. And most of the time they were able to exceed my expectations when the project was
finished, so.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. Yeah.
Ray Arambula: You've also probably witnessed tremendous changes in radiologic technology —
Sal Martino: Oh yeah.
Ray Arambula: — from digital, now we have AI [artificial intelligence]. How do you think those
shifts have impacted the technologist role today?
Sal Martino: You know, I listened to your podcast with Dr. Smetherman? [see Episode 202]
Melissa Pergola: Yeah, Dr. Smetherman.
Sal Martino: Smetherman.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah, she's amazing.
Sal Martino: Yeah, and, you know, I have to kind of follow up what she said. She was talking about
how we just — technologists don't work as much as a team as they used to. I mean, going back, my, you know,
beginnings as a radiologic technologist, I mean, everybody was in the same department, you know, working together
and everything else. And you interacted with the radiologists a lot more and a lot of other people.
And it's gotten kind of fragmented a little bit more now. And so, in a way, I think more and more radiologic
technologists are working independently. And so I think that gives them, in some ways, like the Be Seen campaign —
it makes them seem like they have a little bit more authority and autonomy. I mean, you know, if you're a lay
person, you're walking in, you're seeing this incredible machine, and this is the person that's, you know, running
it and everything. But with that has come maybe this isolation, or there's not the same kind of, you know, teamwork
—
Melissa Pergola: Collaboration, camaraderie. Yeah.
Sal Martino: — collaboration. And the relationship, you know, I'm not really sure what the
relationship between technologists and radiologists are now, because I don't think they interact that much anymore.
You know, a lot of the exams that we used to do with a radiologist in the room, whether it be a myelogram or
arthogram or some of the orthopedic stuff I did, that's all MR now. So, I mean, you're not, you know, working with
them. That's the biggest change. And of course the equipment. Like everything else, technology — and you probably
know this better [gestures to Ray] — you know, technology in some ways is very beneficial, but then there's always
going to be some downside.
Melissa Pergola: So Sal, the name of this episode is “Friends of the Profession,” and when we
thought about friends of the profession, you came to mind immediately, right? Friends almost seems not significant
enough. But I'm curious when you hear that term, what does that make you think about? Who are the true friends of
the profession? So, those who've helped to advance the field or fight to protect the field?
Sal Martino: When I think about technologists who we've known, I think the real friends of the
profession are people that have served in a volunteer capacity almost their entire career and are also, have very
much supported the [ASRT] Foundation.
Melissa Pergola: Oh, yeah.
Sal Martino: Somebody like Jan Sisler.
Melissa Pergola: Right.
Sal Martino: I mean, Jan has stayed involved. Jan was a former president. Jan was on the Foundation
Board. Jan is a significant donor. You know, those kind of things.
Marilyn Sackett, maybe Bob Walker, Leslie Winter. You know, people have just been around for a long time and always
willing to give more.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Sal Martino: And I think the Foundation's a big part of it, because what the Foundation is doing in
a lot of ways is making sure that the next generation is prepared.
Melissa Pergola: Yes. Yeah.
Sal Martino: And that's really important, so.
Ray Arambula: How did your early career experience as a technologist and educator influence your
philosophy as a CEO?
Sal Martino: You know, I think in some ways I probably had the most bizarre career of any
technologist in a lot ways. [chuckles]
Melissa Pergola: [laughs]
Sal Martino: I started working in a radiology department when I was 16. And so, when most of my
friends were getting jobs at, you know, fast food and this and that, I was what they called a diener. It's a
transporter.
Melissa Pergola: OK.
Sal Martino: But that's what they called it, like, 40 years ago. Some people still remember that
term. So I was transporting patients.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Sal Martino: And then I went to college. And I worked in the dark room. I got promoted from
transporter to the dark room, and I did all that through college.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Sal Martino: Graduated with a bachelor's degree in 1973. Largest graduating class ever. Nobody could
get a job.
Ray Arambula: Wow.
Sal Martino: And so a friend of mine said, you know, “We're going to go to x-ray school.” But yeah,
so it was very different. And then I went to New York Hospital Cornell. Came out, but I had a bachelor's degree, so
I was able to go into teaching right away —
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Sal Martino: — because that was a big deal. That was a minimum then.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Sal Martino: Got a master's in whatever, and then, you know, what’s so interesting about my career
was that it took me in so many different directions. So, I mean, I ended up being associate dean of academic affairs
at City University with a doctorate from Columbia, but I was still a radiologic technologist —
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Sal Martino: — you know, and that kind of led me to the job at ASRT as director of education and
whatever. But then that led to a whole other career in association management, which is what some people do anyway.
So, you know, I guess if I was going to give a message to people that are coming into this field, that there's so
many possibilities, and you never know where you're going to end up. I mean, look at you [to Melissa], you did
clinical, you did education, you did corporate, you did management —
Melissa Pergola: Hospital administration. Yeah. [laughs]
Sal Martino: — and now this, you know. And there aren't a lot of other careers that have those many
prongs to it.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Ray Arambula: ASRT Foundation established a scholarship in your name in honor of the contributions
that you made to the profession. Can you tell us a little bit about that scholarship and what it means to you and
what it means to your legacy in helping support the next generation of technologists?
Sal Martino: I think what I like about the scholarship is, for those people that have leadership
potential, but there is going to be significant financial barriers for them to achieve that potential. I think this
scholarship, you know, hopefully will help them with that. So it's important to me, especially because I have a deep
understanding of the struggles that a number of students go through —
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Sal Martino: — to get through, you know, an x-ray program, you know, today.
Melissa Pergola: I'm curious, what gives you the most hope about the next generation of radiologic
technologists and radiation therapists?
Sal Martino: There's a whole new generation that's coming into the field now that seem highly,
highly motivated. I think they're really aware of the potential that they have coming into this field.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Sal Martino: So, you know, it’s really the motivation in those students. You know, also the
confidence. You know, they have a lot of self-confidence. I think the students realize that, you know, they've got
so many different opportunities, practice settings and all different kinds of things. So I have a lot of hope. Most
students in this profession say, “I've got a world of possibilities. And I don't even know what this is going to
look like in 10 years.” And I think that's kind of exciting.
Ray Arambula: Yeah.
Melissa Pergola: Well, yeah, you're right. I never thought about that. We need that mindset. We need
the growth mindset.
Sal Martino: Yes.
Melissa Pergola: And the change mindset. And it's OK if my job is not going to look like this in
five years. I'm willing to move with the profession and maybe even change who we are and what we do. But it will be
us doing it.
Sal Martino: That's it.
Melissa Pergola: So that is exciting. Yeah. OK, so finally, my last question for you, Sal, before I
thank you and thank you and thank you for everything you did for the profession and this organization, and — I'll
get to that in a minute. But finally, what message would you like to share with ASRT members and professionals who
continue to build the foundation you helped create?
Sal Martino: Become an ASRT member.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Sal Martino: More than that, become an ASRT volunteer. Even the smallest little — or your affiliate.
Start at the state.
Melissa Pergola: Yes. Yes.
Sal Martino: And you make friends. You know, you really do. I mean, most of my friends are people
that I worked with over the years. You know? So I guess that's my message.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. So you build skills, you make friends, and you also build relationships that
may come back and help you throughout your career, right?
Sal Martino: Oh, without a doubt.
Melissa Pergola: You don't go into it because you expect to get something out of it, but you always
do.
Sal Martino: Yeah.
Melissa Pergola: You are an absolutely amazing leader, and a lot of people would say kind of a hard
act to follow. But I want to thank you for your mentorship and for everything that you have done for this
organization, because you truly put us in a position where we can move forward and lead and do new things without
fear. I can't thank you enough for being a mentor, for really putting me in a place where we can do these great
things. So thank you.
Sal Martino: Well, thank you for having me. This was really, really nice and it, you know, kind of
made me think again, which I don't have to do a lot anymore. [laughs]
Melissa Pergola and Ray Arambula: [laugh]
Sal Martino: And also, you're two of my favorite people, and you know that.
Melissa Pergola: Aww, right back at you.
Sal Martino: You’re both terrific at what you do and completely committed to the organization of
members. And they should be really grateful. And I think a lot of them are.
Ray Arambula: Thank you.
Sal Martino: I am!
Female Voice: We'll be right back after this short message.
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Melissa Pergola: Well, guess what time it is.
Ray Arambula: What time is it?
Melissa Pergola: Well, it's time for the We See You segment.
Ray Arambula: All right.
Elizabeth Eslich: My name is Elizabeth Eslich. I'm a radiologist assistant from Pittsburgh,
Pennsylvania. My question for Melissa is: What is MARCA, why is it important to the ASRT and what is ASRT doing to
help MARCA pass?
Melissa Pergola: Mm, Elizabeth, thank you for that question. So for our listeners and viewers who
don't know, it's the Medicare Access to Radiology Care Act. We've talked about on this podcast the radiologist
assistant, our advanced practice practitioner. So the reason why MARCA is so important is if we can get MARCA
passed, then RAs will be able to be fully utilized —
Ray Arambula: Yes.
Melissa Pergola: — in the radiology department as a part of the radiologist-led team. And it really
can help with shortages. It can help with wait times for patients. It can increase the quality and safety of patient
care. So it's important for our profession and for our radiographers to have the ability to have an advanced
practice. But it's also incredibly important for our radiology departments, our radiologists and for patients,
ultimately.
We're working with our partners like the American Registry of Radiologic Technologists, and my ask would be that when
MARCA is introduced, we need our members to mobilize and act, and that is working with congressional leaders to
educate them on the role of the RA and the need for this legislation.
Ray Arambula: Yeah. And to help with that, we do provide online resources, such as the advocacy
toolkit and the Advocacy Action Center, for our members so they can advocate for this critical legislation.
Melissa Pergola: Don't put yourself in a bad position —
Ray Arambula: — stay up to date with “The RAD Position.”
Volunteering is one of the best ways you can give back, share your expertise and knowledge and others, and help shape
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world a better place. ASRT volunteers are members or nonmembers who contribute their time, their expertise and funds
to the ASRT, ASRT Foundation and the ASRT-PAC® to support their missions. Visit asrt.org/Volunteers to see the current ASRT volunteer opportunities and
learn how to apply.
Melissa Pergola: Well, thank you, everyone, for listening and watching, and don't forget to
subscribe.
Ray Arambula: Yes. Or you can write in at [email protected] and fill out the form at asrt.org/RADPosition.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. So to all our medical imaging and radiation therapy professionals, be seen —
Ray Arambula: — and stay rad.