This is “The RAD Position” with ASRT CEO and
Executive Director Melissa Pergola, a podcast for medical imaging and
radiation therapy professionals.
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Melissa Pergola: Hi there, and welcome back to “The RAD
Position” podcast. I’m your host, Melissa Pergola, ASRT CEO.
Ray Arambula: And I’m her podcast partner, Ray Arambula.
Melissa Pergola: And we’re here with ASRT President-elect
Marissa Mangrum.
Marissa Mangrum: Hi. Thank you for having me back. I’m so
excited to be here.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah, yeah, it is exciting.
Ray Arambula: Welcome back.
Melissa Pergola: So, Marissa, last time we talked about
mentoring. But today we’re going to talk about something else that is very
close to your heart.
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: And that is burnout and stress and mental
health and how important it is that we have these conversations.
Marissa Mangrum: Yes, yes. It’s one of those things that I
think is so important. I think we worry about our job and all the technical
things we do, but it’s these other things, the taking care of the whole
professional, not just the 8-to-5, that is really important to me.
Melissa Pergola: And as our president-elect, it is really
heartening to know that that is important to you, because we see so much of
that in our profession. But before we continue with your questions, I’m going
to go ahead and do a little bit of an introduction for Marissa.
Marissa Mangrum: OK, great.
Melissa Pergola: So Marissa Mangrum is the radiation therapy
program director for the University of Oklahoma. Marissa’s educational
background includes a bachelor’s degree in radiation therapy from the
University of Oklahoma and a master’s of science degree in radiologic science
from Midwestern State University. She is registered in radiation therapy and
has worked as a staff therapist, simulation therapist and in education serving
as a program director and clinical coordinator.
Marissa has served on the Board of Directors for the American Society of
Radiologic Technologists, and in addition, she has served on numerous
committees for the ASRT, including the Practice Standards Council, Radiation
Therapy Curriculum Work Group, Radiation Oncology Safety Stakeholders
Initiative, and she has served two terms as Radiation Therapy Chapter
delegate, serving as chair and vice chair. So again, welcome.
Marissa Mangrum: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Melissa Pergola: So Marissa, to start, my first question is,
when you think about burnout in radiation therapy and in medical imaging, what
does that look like in day-to-day practice?
Marissa Mangrum: So I think it’s going to be a little bit
different, dependent on where you’re working and what you’re working in. But,
you know, in general, it’s a chronic fatigue. It’s irritability. It’s kind of
a detachment from your job and what you find a passion in. We all enter this
field to treat patients and take care of patients. So I think when you start
being burnt out or have those stressors, you start losing sight of what was
passionate about coming into the field.
Melissa Pergola: Hmm. Yeah.
Marissa Mangrum: So I think that’s what first starts
happening.
Ray Arambula: And have you personally experienced moments
where burnout and high stress in your career, and what has helped you kind of
get through those times?
Marissa Mangrum: I definitely have. Like all of us in every
profession, we have those stressors. Mine probably was when I had small
children.
Melissa Pergola: Oh yeah.
Marissa Mangrum: It’s very hard to juggle when you have many
different hats that you wear in a facility where you’re working plus out in
your personal life. So that was one of those stressors. And I know there are a
lot of people who do that on a daily basis.
Kind of one of the big stress points were when both my parents passed away.
And it was from cancer. So they had a — it was about five-year battle, each of
them, at the same time.
Melissa Pergola: Wow.
Marissa Mangrum: And at that time, I was actually treating
patients. And with them both having cancer, it was kind of that — I knew all
of what, you know, the background and everything, which was great to help
them. But also, you’re giving yourselves to your patients, and then you are
also feeling this sense of, I need some support, you know? Because I am taking
care of the same type of patients in my personal life as well.
I think what happened there — I really am lucky that I have had great friends
that have helped me along, friends in the field, friends with ASRT, the people
that I’ve met years ago on ASRT committees were there and understood —
understood that burnout, understood that stress. I think that was really a
time that, you know, I was able to move forward, able to do what I needed to
do, and I was really fortunate.
And I think I want everybody to have that. I want everybody to have that
ability if they need it. I didn’t like to ask for help. And I think that’s a
lot of us. In the field that we go in, we take care of our patients, and we
just kind of put one foot in front of the other and go, go, go. But I think
it’s important to let people know and be vulnerable — say, “I need some help”
— or that we just see somebody and make sure we ask them, “Do you have
something going on?” and have that connection.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. And especially — you mentioned within
the profession and your ASRT colleagues and that community that we have. I
think that is a benefit that we don’t think about when we are a volunteer or
we’re a member of something like the ASRT, and in particular, when you’re
going through something like that, to have someone who is in your community
that truly understands feels like a safe space. And we’re lucky when we have
that.
Marissa Mangrum: Oh, definitely. And that community — it’s a
community all over the country.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Marissa Mangrum: My best friends are from all over the
country, and they’re the ones I can lean on at any time. So, I mean, that’s
been one of the things that I’ve been so fortunate to have made those bonds
through the communities in the ASRT.
Ray Arambula: And you mentioned kind of two different ends in
the spectrum. You talk about having young kids and maybe having parents with
cancer, you know, and those definitely are personal. What do you define
burnout — what does that look like in a health care setting? You know, it
might be different from just being tired or stressed.
Marissa Mangrum: Well, I think it’s actually considered an
occupational syndrome. And it’s emotional exhaustion, because we have the
emotion of caring for those patients. And there’s this thing called compassion
fatigue that we can have as well. And just a reduced sense of accomplishment
in the field. So, it’s not just feeling stressed, but having this prolonged
feeling of exhaustion, you know, that’s something that’s chronic, that’s a
little bit more depending on — also we have physical things, right? We’re
physically exhausted —
Ray Arambula: Yeah, yep.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Marissa Mangrum: — because we have this job of caring for
patients. Then the emotional exhaustion of caring for them mentally and
helping them through processes and of the chronically ill and all these things
as well. So it’s just — there’s a lot of things.
And then that’s not even touching that — if you have your short workers, so
the workforce — and you’re doing double shifts or you’re working double of
what you should be, that compounds it as well. So there’s a lot of things
right now that I think is attributing to that in health care.
Melissa Pergola: Mm-hmm. So you’ve already kind of mentioned
this, but do you think there are any other unique challenges that we have in
radiation therapy or medical imaging that lead to burnout?
Marissa Mangrum: I think the unique challenges we have is,
right now, kind of the workforce — needing more workers in the workforce, so
we have this shortage. So that’s — and I know all of health care, a lot of
health care are feeling that. We are feeling it quite a bit. So that’s a
concern.
And I think just what we put into our job with our patients, and, you know, if
you’re in the trauma ER, you’re seeing patients that — that’s different. Or if
you’re in caring for a cancer patient. So I think that’s why it’s different.
We have this special skill set. We are the professionals that put everything
into our patients. And then I think that can lead to it, because we have such
a high load of what we’re doing that is special to what we do that can make
that worse.
Melissa Pergola: And I wonder — I heard you say earlier that
when you were going through cancer with your parents — and I’m sorry for that.
Marissa Mangrum: Thank you.
Melissa Pergola: Both my parents passed from cancer, too.
It’s an interesting place to be where, like you said, you know what’s going on
so that you can assist.
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: But you know what’s going on.
Marissa Mangrum: Yes.
Melissa Pergola: And I think that that is a unique thing in
our profession, right? You understand what this means and what this is going
to look like.
Marissa Mangrum: Oh, yeah.
Melissa Pergola: And can I ask you a personal question?
Marissa Mangrum: Sure.
Melissa Pergola: Did your parents have — did either one of
them have therapy?
Marissa Mangrum: Yes. They both did. Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: OK. OK. So you really knew.
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: You really understood what was —
Marissa Mangrum: Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. That’s hard. That’s hard. Yeah. And
you figure, I mean, I really don’t know of anybody that’s not been touched by
cancer, whether it’s a family member, themselves or their friends, right? And
when you’re a therapist in particular, I can’t imagine how that adds to your
stress on a daily basis, like I said, that you know. You know.
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It’s that double-edged sword,
right? You have all the information to help them and give this — but it’s that
kind of, you know, you have to kind of shut it off and, you know, there’s
these five-year survival rates and they can be really low. Both of my parents
had lung cancer, so really low.
But then you always say — but there’s this low percentage, but there’s also a
percentage of people who survive. My parents both survived longer than the
five-year survival rate. So they did go past that. So there are those things
to be definitely thankful for.
And the radiation treatments, you know, getting CTs [computed tomography
examinations], getting chest x-ray — that’s how they found it, right? For my
patients. So our whole field is what helped find it. And then they were also
treated with therapy. So it very much was great to know that our field was
helping. But then on the other side, I know — I know that other side of what
is to come, possibly.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Ray Arambula: And it’s really eye-opening to see the ripple
effect that this has on individuals and then how that plays into not just the
clinicians, but also to the team dynamics and the patient care.
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm.
Ray Arambula: Can you talk a little bit about that and what
has been maybe your experience around that?
Marissa Mangrum: So, there have been some studies looking and
— because I love this topic and finding research that, you know, this
translates into decreased job performance and also a bad team dynamic. If
everybody’s angry, if everybody’s stressed and burnt out, there is this
breakdown of communication with your staff. And that kind of just feeds just
not a great experience, right? If you’ve been in — and I’m sure everybody’s
been in this workplace that’s just tension, you know? And that’s what happens.
It was very interesting. At the Annual Governance and House of Delegates
Meeting this year in Reno, a student — I was in the Management Chapter
meeting. And a student stood up, and he said that he felt already that
students already felt burnt out.
Melissa Pergola: Oh my goodness.
Marissa Mangrum: Because they were going into clinics where
the clinicians were burnt out. They were stressed. And he said, you know,
“This is me and my other,” you know, the other students were like, “It just is
breeding —” They’re like, “Do we want to do this?” So it’s sending this bigger
— it’s a bigger problem.
Melissa Pergola: Right.
Marissa Mangrum: It’s not right there. But, so, you know,
laughter is contagious. So is burnout and stress, obviously. [chuckles]
Melissa Pergola: [chuckles] Yeah. Yeah.
Ray Arambula: Right, yeah. That’s a good point.
Marissa Mangrum: And he mentioned it — that same student
stood up again and talked about it twice. So it is a major — and that was
really eye-opening to me, that they are seeing it and they are feeling it.
Ray Arambula: You talked about earlier checking in on one
another and just asking how you’re doing, see if there’s anything going on.
What other small changes can we make as leaders to show that we’re supportive
in that way or see if there’s anything we can do for one another?
Marissa Mangrum: Yeah. That first one is one of the biggest
ones. I think a thank you or a personal conversation —
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Marissa Mangrum: — with somebody makes a huge difference.
Just looking somebody in the eye and saying, you know, “Thank you. You did a
great job doing that.” I don’t think we do enough of that. I think that’s just
something we’re so busy, we don’t do.
Some other things is to allow the employees to be able to have time. I know
it’s very hard in the hospital and very hard when — so just maybe finding ways
that they can have some personal time. Or if there’s ways we can incorporate
exercise. Exercise. Some type of exercise program. Providing healthy snacks
available, healthy things. I’ve seen some great things even being here. Like
the coloring. They say coloring is very therapeutic.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Marissa Mangrum: One of the other things is as a leader, you
also relax, and that sets an example.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Marissa Mangrum: I think a lot of times those in charge think
they need to be the ones that work 24 hours a day, send out emails all the
time and do all those things because they’re the ones in charge of everything.
And I think it has an opposite of reaction than what they think. Because then
it makes you feel like, Oh, am I supposed to be doing that? Should I be doing,
taking on all of these things?
So I think management, if they learned — maybe they are working all weekend,
but sending those emails, having them scheduled for just the work week, I
think those are very helpful to just kind of set that culture, so it starts
with the top. It needs to set that culture of, it’s important to have
wellness, to have — take time for yourself.
Ray Arambula: Melissa does such a great job here at our
organization, and she talks a lot about modeling the way —
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm.
Ray Arambula: — and really being the example of what you want
to see happen in the organization. So those are some great takeaways. Thank
you for sharing that.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. And I think it is important, right? We
have to be careful as leaders, though, that we do, we don’t just — that we do
walk the walk. Walk the talk. How do you say that?
Ray Arambula: Walk the talk.
Melissa Pergola: That we do walk the talk. Because it’s
important to me that the employees at ASRT do that. But early on from one of
your colleagues [gestures toward Ray], I got a note that said, “You say you
want us to do this, but the way you go is not sustainable, and you’re not
really modeling the way.” So I like the idea of what you — I think people need
to give feedback to their leaders.
So then at one point, right after I started, I had to have surgery, and I
really had to be out. And one of your colleagues [gestures toward Ray] said to
me, “Wow, you really didn’t answer any emails for, like, nine days.” But what
I can tell you changed in me after that nine days — and I’ll just say it. So I
had to have my thyroid taken out, because I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer.
And I’m me, so I was like, “OK, well, you know, I’ll take off a week and a
half,” and then I had a full docket of meetings again. “It’s going to be no
big deal.” Well, I didn’t get my voice back, right? [laughs]
Ray Arambula: Right. Right.
Melissa Pergola: Like, what is going on?
Marissa Mangrum: Oh my goodness.
Melissa Pergola: So I had to cancel my meetings. And so when
I got back, not only did I not answer while I was away, but when I got back, I
canceled all my meetings for multiple days. And I actually sat quietly and got
caught up. And I felt like I had added 10 years to my life. I felt like, I’m
in my mid-50s and I’ve never taken two weeks for myself. I probably have never
taken two weeks —
Ray Arambula: I believe that.
Melissa Pergola: — in that, in my life. [laughs] And so then
I realized, like you said, I have to model that. I say I want you to do that.
Leaders have to do that.
And it’s the little things. Like, you even mentioned here — that’s a culture.
Like, I didn’t even know that they had up, like, posters for coloring on the
second floor here. But the culture is wellness, and when leaders do things
like that, the little things, right? We’re going to put coloring books out.
We’re going to try to create space for you. Then the employees really feel
seen. And they really feel like that the leadership does care, and that fills
their heart, too. They feel appreciated, which is what you were talking about.
You need to say thank you. And so it’s little things that leaders can do,
right?
Marissa Mangrum: Yeah, definitely. And I think it’s being
vulnerable, having those discussions and learning about who — it’s important
to learn the other things about people. That’s where I found — like, I, with
my students, I want to know as much as they’ll tell me, because I care for
them, you know? And it’s that connection of knowing when, you know, someone
has kids or has something going on in their lives, if they want to share that.
I mean, I know it’s not always something that wants to be shared, but I do
think that’s very important.
And if we have happier, you know, technologist, therapist, our patients are
going to be that. And there’s studies that show that, too. Patient care is
better when you have people that are happy and aren’t stressed and burnt out.
Melissa Pergola: It makes so much sense. It was interesting
to hear the research behind when you have people who are burnt out, then that
tends to have others who come into that area then feel that burnout more
quickly.
And I guess I never realized it when I was a young technologist, but I worked
in multiple places. And there were — the job was always the same, basically.
But it was the group of people I worked with that made me either happy to get
up or want to stay in bed. And I can only imagine in today’s world if those
young students are going into a department where everyone is burnt out and
there’s no, you know, there’s no happiness — I mean, we have to have happiness
— that they are going to get burnt out immediately. And they’re not going to
be happy with the profession. And I don’t know if that’s what was causing it
back then, or there were just bad apples. But, I mean, if it’s perpetuated
today with burnout, that’s a tough department to work in.
Marissa Mangrum: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think there’s so many
other factors, too, today, like constantly being on our phones, right? We
always have our phones, so information is always bombarding us. So we always
can get emails. We always can read emails. We can always, like — so I think
that, too, we need to be detached and just go, you know, around here there’s
the great hiking mountains, you know? Hike up in the mountains and just kind
of, don’t look at your phone. Don’t do — so I think there’s a lot of things
that can be done that personally we can do as well to make ourselves feel
better. But then there’s those things in the workplace as well that can be
done to contribute.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. So what about you being the
president-elect of ASRT — what are things that professional associations like
ASRT can do to play a role in really addressing burnout?
Marissa Mangrum: Well, I think some of the things that have
already happened — so, acknowledgement, the Be Seen campaign. So that’s one of
the things — people want to be acknowledged. And so that’s the start of really
getting that on a national — the BeRAD Award for facilities as well. So those
are some great things. Also the Consensus Committee [Consensus Committee on
the Future of Medical Imaging and Radiation Therapy], bringing together all
the groups and addressing what the concerns are. That’s going to help with one
of the major things like staffing shortage. So bringing all those together,
those are great things that continue to help bring it to the light.
The journals — there’s articles on burnout. You know, there’s CE [continuing
education], talks on these things and what can be done for them. So I think
there are tons of things that can be done and that are already being done by
the ASRT.
Also mentoring programs. That’s another thing that they say really helps with
burnout is when somebody has a mentor in their workplace. And so I’ve seen
places, and we talked about this before, because that was one of my other
things that I really thought was great, that some places have a mentor that’s
assigned, and that’s one of their onboarding things for their new hires.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Marissa Mangrum: So I think that can help as well.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Ray Arambula: Yeah.
Melissa Pergola: So that’s more like a systemic change,
right?
Marissa Mangrum: Yes.
Melissa Pergola: So are there other sort of systemic changes
that are needed to create a healthier workplace?
Marissa Mangrum: Yeah, so I definitely think if health care,
hospitals, clinics, the whole system are committed to wellness, have wellness
programs, that can really help within the health care profession in general,
and especially with the technologist, therapist as well. So making those
changes to provide more time, more staff if possible at the time — again,
difficult. But some of these stress management types of where they bring
people in to talk — I know we used to have, at my workplace, they would bring
in somebody to do chair massages.
Melissa Pergola: Yes. [laughs]
Marissa Mangrum: So we would kind of rotate off the treatment
machine and somebody would go get a chair massage. So little things like that.
You know, yoga during lunch. And so I think there are a lot of things that can
be done. I think what’s important is it’s being brought and more people are
talking about it.
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Ray Arambula: All right, so we’re going to transition now
into —
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. Marissa remembers this. She’s done a
game before, right?
Ray Arambula: Yes.
Marissa Mangrum: [laughs and nods] Yep.
Ray Arambula: We’re game time.
Melissa Pergola: [laughs]
Ray Arambula: So Marissa is not new to the Board [ASRT Board
of Directors], so I’ve gotten to know her. I know a few things about her. I
know that —
Marissa Mangrum: Oh.
Melissa Pergola: Oh, no.
Ray Arambula: — she makes sourdough bread.
Marissa Mangrum: Oh, yes. [laughs]
Ray Arambula: I also know that both of you are passionate
about true crime documentaries.
Melissa Pergola: Oh yeah. Yeah. We found out that we both go
to sleep to “Dateline.”
Ray Arambula: Yes.
Marissa Mangrum and Melissa Pergola: [laughs]
Melissa Pergola: I don’t know what that says about us, but.
Ray Arambula: I don’t know.
Melissa Pergola: Is it Keith Morrison’s voice?
Ray Arambula: We’re not going to answer that very soon.
Marissa Mangrum: Yes, I was just about to say his voice.
Melissa Pergola: Very soothing, yes.
Ray Arambula: So we’re going to play a game called True
Crumb, a play on true crime sourdough.
Melissa Pergola: [laughs] Oh, you’re so clever, Ray.
Ray Arambula: So I’m going to give some phrases, right?
Melissa Pergola: OK.
Ray Arambula: About sourdough. And they’re either a truth or
they’re a myth.
Marissa Mangrum: [laughs]
Ray Arambula: But instead of the word truth or myth, we’re
going to use the words speculative or evidence.
Melissa Pergola: Speculative or evidence. OK.
Ray Arambula: OK? So let’s give an example. So, sourdough
toothpaste.
Melissa Pergola: Speculative.
Marissa Mangrum: Yeah, speculative.
Ray Arambula: Yeah, you’re correct.
Melissa Pergola: OK.
Ray Arambula: OK. See? You got this.
Melissa Pergola: OK.
Ray Arambula: All right, so, here’s the next one. Sourdough
dog biscuits.
Melissa Pergola: Evidence.
Marissa Mangrum: Evidence, yeah.
Ray Arambula: Evidence. Both of you correct, yeah. Bakers
really make pet treats —
Melissa Pergola: Really?
Ray Arambula: — with the discard of sourdough.
Marissa Mangrum: Yeah.
Ray Arambula: I had no idea.
Melissa Pergola: Huh. I said that, but as I was saying it, I
was wondering if it really was safe for them, but, guess it is.
Ray Arambula: Yeah.
Marissa Mangrum: Yeah.
Ray Arambula: Sourdough sushi rolls.
Melissa Pergola and Marissa Mangrum: Speculative.
Ray Arambula: Yeah. They’re not quite there yet.
Melissa Pergola: Ugh.
Ray Arambula: Yeah.
Melissa Pergola: Where would it even be?
Ray Arambula: Yeah. [chuckles]
Melissa Pergola: It’s rice.
Marissa Mangrum: [chuckles]
Ray Arambula: How about this one? Sourdough ice cream
sandwiches.
Marissa Mangrum: Evidence.
Melissa Pergola: Ah, yeah, evidence. I could see that.
Ray Arambula: Yeah. It’s actually a thing. People make
sourdough cookies and pair them with ice cream.
Melissa Pergola: Have you made that, Marissa?
Marissa Mangrum: Yes. I actually make sourdough cookies.
They’re the best, and I make them, like, in a triple batch, and I’ll freeze
them. You can freeze cookies and rolls and then just get them out when you
want them and cut them off and bake however much you want.
Ray Arambula: That’s sourdough?
Melissa Pergola: Wow.
Marissa Mangrum: Yeah, with the sourdough discard.
Ray Arambula: OK.
Marissa Mangrum: Yeah, so it’s just like, it just replaces
the other rising-type ingredients.
Melissa Pergola: Wow. But have you made an ice cream
sandwich? Have you put it together with ice cream yet?
Marissa Mangrum: I ate ice cream on top of the cookie.
Melissa Pergola: Oh, there you go.
Marissa Mangrum: But I didn’t make it as a sandwich, so.
Melissa Pergola: [laughs] Close enough.
Ray Arambula: Close enough, yeah. OK. So there’s a sourdough
cocktail called the Crusty Mary that uses fermented bread base instead of
tomato juice. Is that speculative or evidence?
Melissa Pergola and Marissa Mangrum: Speculative.
Ray Arambula: It is, yeah. Actually, it does exist —
Marissa Mangrum: — because there’s hooch.
Ray Arambula: That’s right.
Melissa Pergola: What is hooch?
Ray Arambula: That’s right.
Melissa Pergola: What is that?
Marissa Mangrum: It’s like what your discard — if it’s
hungry, if your sourdough discard is hungry and you don’t feed it, it gets
hooch built up. It’s a layer — it’s actually like an alcohol.
Melissa Pergola: [laughs]
Marissa Mangrum: It’s like making, like, a moonshine-type
thing, right?
Melissa Pergola: Get out!
Ray Arambula: OK, last one. Someone once baked a loaf of
sourdough using flour ground from crickets.
Melissa Pergola: That’s probably evidence.
Marissa Mangrum: I would say evidence as well.
Melissa Pergola: People use crickets for stuff.
Ray Arambula: It is. I was surprised.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Ray Arambula: Edible insect flowers have been used in
artesian breads.
Melissa Pergola: Huh.
Ray Arambula: No idea.
Marissa Mangrum: I mean, you’d need a lot of crickets.
[laughs]
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. [laughs]
Ray Arambula: Yeah, I was just going to say —
Melissa Pergola: That ground them up.
Marissa Mangrum: Yeah.
Ray Arambula: OK. Well, thank you for playing along. Marissa
still wins.
Melissa Pergola: She always wins.
Marissa Mangrum: Oh, well, thank you.
Melissa Pergola: [laughs] All right, so now it’s time for our
—
Ray Arambula: We See You segment.
Melissa Pergola: — We See You segment. We have Marissa here
to answer with us.
Ray Arambula: OK. All right, let’s kick it off.
Josh Lucero: I have one question about the SLDP program [ASRT
Student to Leadership Development Program]. I just got accepted to the
program, but what are some specific ways from your perspective that I can
leverage the program to advance my career?
Melissa Pergola: Good question.
Ray Arambula: It is.
Melissa Pergola: I’m going to start with Marissa.
Marissa Mangrum: Oh, well, I want to say congratulations —
Melissa Pergola: Yes!
Marissa Mangrum: — that he got in the program. Definitely
take advantage of being around, you know — when you come to the annual
meeting, talk to people, reach out. They want to talk to you. They want it —
they love it. Everybody here loves to talk to the students, so take advantage
of all of that. You know, go speak to the Board of Directors and just
everybody. I think it’s such a great experience. And that’s what I think is
great about it.
Ray Arambula: I would just say share your experience, you
know? I think, you know, we have opportunities for you to write and submit
articles.
Melissa Pergola: Yes, yes.
Ray Arambula: So that would be a good way. I think getting
involved and volunteering, looking at the different committees that we have,
the different task forces that are out there, that’d be a good way to start
advancing your career as well.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. So my answer kind of ties the two
together. So I think it’s networking and introducing yourself to people and
learning from others. But also, we require that our Student to Leadership
Development Program participants, SLDP, remain a member. I think we actually
pay for their affiliate membership. But we also — they don’t just have to be a
member. You know you have to be involved, too, and I think that’s critical.
Use that three years of being in the program to meet people, network, get your
name out there and really try to volunteer significantly in your affiliate.
And that’s sort of how you build your leadership skills, right? Through to
like where Marissa is sitting. Oftentimes our leaders that become
president-elect, president were our affiliate leaders, so it’s a real
opportunity for you to sort of get your name out there, network and start that
volunteerism.
Ray Arambula: Absolutely.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. So congratulations again. And thank
you for the question.
Ray Arambula: OK. It’s time for the updates.
Melissa Pergola: It is. It is.
Ray Arambula: And you know what we say around here: Don’t put
yourself in a bad position —
Melissa Pergola: — stay up to date with “The RAD Position.”
So this is airing right around the holidays, and the team usually writes our
updates. So I have something that I could read, but I really think the heart
of it is more about saying happy holidays to all of our members and to all of
our listeners and really wishing that you have the most amazing time this
holiday. And so maybe we could all give a little holiday greeting.
Ray Arambula: Yes. Happy holidays. I obviously did not get
the memo. You’re wearing red.
Melissa Pergola: I am.
Ray Arambula: I’m wearing blue. Well, blue goes. But yes,
happy holidays.
Marissa Mangrum: Yeah, happy holidays.
Melissa Pergola: And so we’d like to wish the entire medical
imaging and radiation therapy community a happy holiday season. Well, we
usually say sort of, “What a great episode.” But I feel like it’s more, “What
an important episode.”
Ray Arambula: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, Marissa, you touched
on a lot of things, but you gave us a lot of good takeaways, even small just
challenges we can use in our daily lives. And I think what resonates for me at
least is that it’s not just about being tired. It’s about protecting that
passion that you have for the whole reason you got into your career, into your
field. So thank you for sharing your perspectives on that. Really appreciate
it.
Marissa Mangrum: Thank you for having me. I’m very excited
over the next year to talk more about what I think I’m so passionate about.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Marissa Mangrum: And I just want to ask everybody out there
to maybe a little challenge to go and say thank you to somebody today. Take
them aside, text somebody and give them a little meaningful thank you, so.
Melissa Pergola: Oh, I love that. I love that.
Marissa Mangrum: So thank you for having me.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah, and the last thing I would say,
Marissa, is I truly believe that things always happen the way they’re supposed
to. And I feel like we get the leaders that we need at the right time, and you
are definitely the right leader for this time.
Marissa Mangrum: Oh, thank you.
Melissa Pergola: And it’s going to be a great year.
Marissa Mangrum: Yeah, I’m excited.
Ray Arambula: Well, thank you all for listening and joining
in, and please don’t forget to subscribe.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Ray Arambula: Also email us at
[email protected].
Melissa Pergola: That’s right. That’s right. And to all our
medical imaging and radiation therapy professionals, be seen —
Ray Arambula: — and stay rad.