This is “The RAD Position” with ASRT CEO and Executive Director Melissa
Pergola, a podcast for medical imaging and radiation therapy professionals.
Melissa Pergola: Hi there and welcome back to “The RAD
Position” podcast. I'm your host, Melissa Pergola, ASRT CEO.
Ray Arambula: And I am her podcast partner, Ray Arambula.
Melissa Pergola: Thank you so much for listening and be sure
to subscribe so you can get updates on new episodes. So today we have ASRT
Secretary Jennifer Thompson joining us. Hi Jennifer.
Jennifer Thompson: Hello. Thank you for inviting me here.
Melissa Pergola: We're excited to have you because we know
that you are so passionate and you're an educator and you're going to talk to
us about the importance of student advocacy, right?
Jennifer Thompson: That's right. Yeah.
Ray Arambula: And it'll be exciting to hear your firsthand
experience just around advocacy and how you really inspire others.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah, so now we're going to introduce Dr.
Thompson. Dr. Thompson is a professor and radiography program director for
Austin Peay State University in Clarksville, Tennessee. She has been a
registered radiologic technologist for more than 15 years. She's held numerous
leadership roles with the Tennessee Society of Radiologic Technologists, and
in addition to her work with the TSRT and ASRT, she was selected by the
American Registry of Radiologic Technologists as Gold Standard recipient in
2023. That's amazing.
Jennifer Thompson: Thank you.
Melissa Pergola: She also won the 2024 ASRT Award for
Advocacy for her efforts in advocating on behalf of the profession and ASRT's
Distinguished Author Award in Honor of Harold Silverman as a co-author of an
article in Radiation Therapy. That is so impressive.
Jennifer Thompson: Thank you.
Melissa Pergola: And thank you for coming on with us tonight.
Jennifer Thompson: Yeah, no problem. I am looking forward to
having our conversation.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Ray Arambula: So, Jennifer, why are you passionate about
advocacy, especially at the student level?
Jennifer Thompson: So, we all know that students are the
future of the profession, and when we have advocacy at a student level, it's
providing students with that professional foundation.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Jennifer Thompson: As educators, I think that we should give
them experiences in every opportunity before they're placed in situations
where they're defending their scope of practice and even defending their scope
of practice within other departments. Students also have a broader sense of
networking. They have a broader population in which they can advocate to.
First they have their cohort where they are uplifting each other —
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Jennifer Thompson: — telling each other about their
experiences in clinical. So that is them practicing verbally saying what they
do as a radiologic technologist. Next they're on campus, so that's a different
population that us as radiologic technologists have.
So, when they are on campus, they are able to recruit campus wide. And we also
have high schools and junior highs coming into the university —
Ray Arambula: Wow.
Jennifer Thompson: — where they can, where they can recruit
and let them know what a radiologic technologist is.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Jennifer Thompson: We also have a uniform on campus where
they have to wear a radiologic technology t-shirt. And so, if they're at
Starbucks getting coffee or they're at the cafe or the library, either one,
they're exposing the word radiologic technologist to the environment.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Jennifer Thompson: Or people are coming up and asking them,
“What is this? What is that program?”
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Jennifer Thompson: “How can I be involved? Then when they go
to clinical, we know that they’re educating their patients because they state
who they are.
They say that they are student radiographer, and that opens up the door to the
patients to ask, “Oh, well, where are you going to school? How do you become
a, a radiographer? How do you become a radiologic technologist?”
And then we know from research that when a student comes into a clinical
environment, the radiologic technologist teaching them gets this renewed sense
of passion.
Melissa Pergola: Mm.
Jennifer Thompson: And so, they’re able to kind of spark
advocacy within that radiologic technologist. On a state level, they become
affiliate members. They go to affiliate meetings where they can grow their
advocacy network. On a national level, they can become ASRT members where
they’re encouraged to reach out to lawmakers, vote for their leaders, and
utilize all the ASRT resources that are given to them on the website.
For my program nationally, anytime I’m invited to go speak at a conference or
a meeting, so I invite students to come speak with me at meetings where they
learn how to speak about the profession, learn how to communicate with others,
and broadening their scope of networking.
And then on a legislative level, they learn the issues that lawmakers actually
care about. And once they learn about those issues, we can change the message.
So, students and ourselves, as radiologic technologists, we care about patient
safety, we care about image quality.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Jennifer Thompson: But that may not be the message that
lawmakers are giving us. And so, they have to change that communication. And I
do think that, within the lawmakers looking at shortages and budgets within
the state, I think that upper management is looking at the same thing.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Jennifer Thompson: So, if they’re learning how to speak on
that legislative level, I think they’re also learning to learn how to
communicate on that management level as well.
Ray Arambula: Wow.
Jennifer Thompson: And then lastly, we can advocate
internationally, too.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Jennifer Thompson: So, I took my students to the Netherlands
where they went to another school, learned what their scope of practice was
vs. the United States scope of practice, what it takes to be a technologist in
the Netherlands versus the United States, how their education was different
and how national testing was different. So, it gave our students a sense that
being certified nationally was really important for patient care and image
quality.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah, it’s so interesting you talk about
sort of the breadth of reach that a student has, and we know our students are
important and they’re the, you know, the future of the generation. But I never
thought about all of the different places that they touch and make an impact
in advocacy. That’s really cool.
Ray Arambula: And it’s so inspiring to hear that even at this
level, they can make a huge impact. Simply by wearing a t-shirt, walking into
Starbucks.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Jennifer Thompson: Right.
Ray Arambula: And people asking questions.
Melissa Pergola: So, Jennifer I’m going to ask a question
just a little bit different about advocacy. So, how does interdisciplinary
collaboration fit here?
Jennifer Thompson: So, this has been one of my passions on
campus. We have been working with nursing and public health because I think
even within nursing, within public health, within us as radiologic technology,
we don’t need to be working in silos anymore.
Melissa Pergola: Right.
Jennifer Thompson: We are a health care team.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Jennifer Thompson: We’re not just a radiology department; we
are part of the greater spectrum of that hospital as a community. The more
that we integrate radiologic technology within the health care team, we’re
going to have positive outcomes. So that can be continuity care.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Jennifer Thompson: The patients having confidence in us as
providers because we are communicating, and I think that interprofessional
development and education within radiologic technology has been growing in
popularity.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Jennifer Thompson: I see it in social media and absolutely
celebrate all of the programs that are doing IPE [interprofessional
education].
We have been doing SIM-IPE for over five years now, and when we look at 2025,
we know five years ago was COVID in 2020. And when we were told we need to
separate, and whenever we started communicating with nursing, we said, “No,
there’s no more separation.”
Melissa Pergola: Right?
Jennifer Thompson: We need to be together learning how to
take care of these patients.
And our students weren’t able to work with COVID patients, so we created
simulation where now they can work together on a COVID patient. So that’s
where it started. So, we do have a few different interprofessional simulations
that we do. We meet about six times a year and have nine different simulations
that we do.
Melissa Pergola: Wow.
Ray Arambula: Wow.
Jennifer Thompson: So, three of them involve the same
patient. So, he is one; he is our COVID patient on a ventilator. He’s very,
very ill and he has a chest tube. During the simulation the patient starts to
Desat [desaturate] rather quickly. After the after the nurses do their
assessment, and what nursing is doing is they are calling respiratory, they’re
doing suctioning.
They’re doing all these lifesaving measures to help out our patient, and his
name is Juan. We’re trying to, they’re trying to do everything they can do to
save the patient. So, our students come in to do the chest x-ray. We watch how
they communicate, how do we need to move, Juan? He’s on the vent; he is
desating, so we need to do it rather quickly. And then they take the image.
Radiology calls nursing, asks them to call the doctor for the report. And the
reason why he was desating is because his chest tube was in the wrong place.
Melissa Pergola: Right.
Jennifer Thompson: So, in the end of the simulation, nursing
realizes there’s no way they could have saved the patient without us.
Melissa Pergola: Right.
Jennifer Thompson: And within the simulation or right after
the simulation, we do something called a debriefing, which is actually more
important than the simulation. And it’s because that’s where all the
communication happens. And so, in that debriefing, we talk about what we
thought we knew about the patient. What we knew about the patient when we came
in.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Jennifer Thompson: What interventions were we doing for that
patient, what we did well, what we think we should do better. We do leave
about 20 minutes within that debrief to start talking about radiography,
radiologic technology, to educate the nursing students — what is our scope of
practice. We show them the images and then they are given time to ask us
questions about our scope. What is the thing that we’re putting behind the
patient? Why are they having to leave the room whenever they’re taking the
images? What is the little box that they’re putting on the image receptor?
They don’t understand all of these things, and so when we get our, when we get
the surveys back, all the nurses say we want to work with radiology.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Jennifer Thompson: It’s one of the best parts about our
simulation. Other simulations we do, we’re more of a spectator. And I always
teach my students,
“We cannot be expected to be seen unless we see them.”
Melissa Pergola: Right.
Jennifer Thompson: But one of our students’ favorite stories
— and this goes along with advocacy and nurses or other health care
professionals knowing what we do — there was a code simulation and, in the
end, they do have to do CPR. And in the simulation there weren’t enough nurses
to bag the patient and to do all of the other things that they were doing to
save the patient.
And one of our students said, “Well, I can do the bagging; I can do it.” And
the nurses all looked at the student and said, “You know CPR?”
Melissa Pergola: Oh.
Ray Arambula: Wow.
Jennifer Thompson: So, this is our, it’s kind of our running
joke, but if nurses don’t know that we can help, especially in those moments
to save a life —
Melissa Pergola: Right.
Jennifer Thompson: — you know, that would be very concerning
for us.
So, when our students are in simulation and they’re watching the nurses using
their critical thinking skills and how they’re processing, I think it gives
them a level of respect for them. And then whenever they’re watching us do our
critical thinking, I think it gives them the respect for us.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. Mutual respect.
Jennifer Thompson: Right.
We’ll be right back after this short message.
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Ray Arambula: Wow, Jennifer, that’s quite the production.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Ray Arambula: But obviously a necessary one for your students
to go through, these simulation.
Jennifer Thompson: Absolutely.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. And you know, you’re talking a lot
about IPE. You said interprofessional education and sims, and I think that one
of the most important things that I heard you say is that the other health
professionals were more educated about who we are and what we do, because
that’s part of being seen too, right? We need other health care professionals
to see us and know who we are and that creates a couple of things. It creates
mutual respect, which ultimately creates better patient care, better patient
outcomes. But it also, I think as we continue to do that, we’ll help with our
legislative efforts.
Jennifer Thompson: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: Because when they realize who we are and
what we do, we won’t see as much encroachment.
Jennifer Thompson: Right.
Melissa Pergola: Because they won’t try to take over our
scope because they realize how significant our training and our scope is. So,
another thing that I want you to talk about because of that is can you talk a
little bit about student interactions with lawmakers and the importance of
state affiliate and ASRT membership?
Jennifer Thompson: Oh, absolutely. So in 2023, I’ll say one
of my greatest accomplishments within my, within that cohort, was having them
involved in advocacy on that legislative level.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Jennifer Thompson: Watching them have communication with each
other and as a cohort about the bill that was introduced, having those
arguments in class, whether it was a good bill or a bad bill, but they wanted
to know how they could help. And so, I said, “Well, I can’t do this alone and
you’re here with me, so just come along on the journey with me.”
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Jennifer Thompson: And so, what we did is, we went to the
capital, and I gave them a few tips. I said, “These lawmakers, they normally
wear a suit and they have a pin. If you find someone with a pin, go follow
them. Find out who they are.” They came in with their scrubs on. So they
looked the part, but they went door to door, knocked on lawmaker’s doors.
Melissa Pergola: Nice.
Jennifer Thompson: They talked to the staffers. We know the
staffers are the real work behind the lawmakers.
Melissa Pergola: Right.
Jennifer Thompson: And so, they were able to tell the story,
give them the one-pager on why the bill was bad, why we needed to have state
licensure. They got into elevators with lawmakers so they could have —
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Jennifer Thompson: — their 30 seconds —
Melissa Pergola: Thirty-second elevator speech.
Jennifer Thompson: — with their elevator speech. And when we,
they got done, they were pumped and full of energy —
Ray Arambula: How exciting.
Jennifer Thompson: — and you know, the whole time we were
there, of course we looked like nurses and so they didn’t really know who we
were until we educated them.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Jennifer Thompson: But all throughout the day, the lawmakers
would come to them and say, “Thank you so much serving the community. We
really appreciate you.”
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Jennifer Thompson: But what it did was give them a sense that
they do have a part. That the lawmakers will listen. So that was really nice
to see.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. And if other educators in other states
want to do this with their students, they have resources, right?
Jennifer Thompson: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: They can contact their state affiliate. The
state affiliates work with the ASRT Government Relations Department. We have
resources; we can help. Where you said you were unsure. That we have things in
place that if they contact their state affiliate or us now we can help with
that. So I highly recommend to educators that they get their students involved
in this way.
Reach out to your state affiliate, reach out to us and we will help you.
Because like you said, it’s so important. You’re seeing the benefit of having
those students go there, find their voice, articulate our importance, and so I
think that’s amazing that you do that.
Jennifer Thompson: Thanks. And then for the importance of
them being state affiliate members, we see our numbers dropping with affiliate
membership.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Jennifer Thompson: If students come to the meetings, they see
the value.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Jennifer Thompson: They see that there are quality speakers
to give them their continuing education. There are numerous volunteers that
are having that affiliate work, and I want them to see that. Anytime I’m
involved in a conference, my students are there working it.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Jennifer Thompson: Because I think they need that buy-in.
They do want to feel a part of something, and so if I give them that ability
to be a part of the affiliate early on, it will drive them to be a member
whenever they are registered radiologic technologist. ASRT membership,
absolutely required within my program. The amount of resources that ASRT has —
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Jennifer Thompson: — for students alone. I can just say
there’s so many, it can be overwhelming. It, the ASRT is absolutely there for
the student’s journey until they get to be a radiologic technologist and then
beyond.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Jennifer Thompson: So, what I do have our students do is they
do have to apply to the Student to Leadership Development Program.
Melissa Pergola: Cool.
Jennifer Thompson: You know, even if it’s just writing the
essay on why they want to be a part of leadership. Again, giving them that
communication, giving them that opportunity to say why they want to be a
radiologic technologist is very important.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Jennifer Thompson: And then, we know that education is
expensive. And so, another opportunity that they have within the ASRT
Foundation is to receive scholarships.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Jennifer Thompson: And again, practicing communication by
writing —
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Jennifer Thompson: — why they want to be in the profession.
Melissa Pergola: What you are doing, Jennifer, is you are
creating that inspiration that will really fuel the next generation of
leaders.
I often say the only reason why I’ve done anything I’ve done is because when I
was in school, I had an educator like you, and we had to join, we were made to
go to the conference, and I remember being at my first conference and being in
absolute awe of the professionals. And it was in that moment that I knew I was
part of something bigger.
And if she had never done that, I don’t know if I would be sitting here on
“The RAD Position” podcast. I really don’t. So you are making a huge
difference.
Jennifer Thompson: Thank you.
Ray Arambula: Well, and I love what you said in that you
can’t do it alone. And the fact that you’re bringing your students along is
not only inspiring, but it, you can sense that you’re empowering them as well,
not only for their career growth but to actually make a real difference and
see the impact of that difference and bring that back to their state and local
levels. And that’s very encouraging to hear.
Jennifer Thompson: Thanks.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Ray Arambula: Yeah.
Melissa Pergola: OK, Dr. Thompson, I guess Ray has a game for
us, and I’ll tell you like I tell everybody else, I also am totally blindsided
every time. So don’t feel bad.
Ray Arambula: Given your work around advocacy, we’re going to
put your skills to the test. So, we’re calling this game Advocacy Wild Card.
So, in my hand I have a selection of random causes. And you are each going to
select one card.
Melissa Pergola: OK.
Ray Arambula: So, you’re going to read your cause to the
audience. And then you’ll have 60 seconds to develop a passionate elevator
pitch.
Melissa Pergola: Wow. OK. So, mine is ban half empty chip
bags, full bags only.
Jennifer Thompson: Yes.
Ray Arambula: That’s a tough one. And Jennifer…
Jennifer Thompson: Traffic tickets can be erased if you
perform a flawless TikTok dance challenge.
Melissa Pergola: So, I want to talk to you about something
that is extremely important. I don’t know if you’ve been trying to get lunch
for your children. To go to school.
Ray Arambula: Yes.
Melissa Pergola: And you want to make sure that they have a
good meal.
Ray Arambula: Yes.
Melissa Pergola: And you have bought like those individual
chips to send with them, right? Because they need something healthy. But they
also, you know, there are kids, right? And you find out that when they got to
school, that bag was half empty.
Ray Arambula: Oh, it’s so annoying.
Melissa Pergola: Right? And your child comes home hungry, and
you paid that for a full bag of chips. Don’t you think that we should ban half
full bags of chips or half empty bags of chips? It’s so unfair to our
children.
Ray Arambula: It is. I know my children would be happier to
have a fuller bag of chips.
Melissa Pergola: Right? Right. Yes. So you’re with me? Ban
half empty chip bags.
Ray Arambula: I’m with you.
Melissa Pergola: OK.
Ray Arambula: But let’s hear it from Jennifer.
Melissa Pergola: OK.
Jennifer Thompson: We also know that there is a health crisis
with the rise in diabetes and the rise in obesity. And most of the time,
parking is more difficult around gyms.
Melissa Pergola: Oh.
Jennifer Thompson: And so, they are parking illegally to get
to these gyms.
Ray Arambula: Interesting.
Jennifer Thompson: And if we are able to waive those parking
tickets based on a TikTok dance, they have been working out, using their body,
doing these TikTok dances. And so not only have they been able to go to the
gym but they’ve also been working out doing these TikTok dances, so I think
that we’re going to have a decrease in the rates of diabetes and obesity
within the younger population.
Melissa Pergola: Oh no.
Ray Arambula: That’s a huge statement, Jennifer.
Melissa Pergola: Oh, wow.
Ray Arambula: I think she wins. I know. She went to the
revenue —
Melissa Pergola: I know.
Ray Arambula: — and that sealed the deal.
Melissa Pergola: I know.
Ray Arambula: But if we could combine TikTok dances with —
Melissa Pergola: With full bags of chips.
Ray Arambula: — Full bags of chips. Oh, everybody’s winning.
I love it.
Jennifer Thompson: Oh, like when you dip, I dip. You dip.
Ray Arambula: There you go.
Melissa Pergola: That’s so good.
All right, Ray, you know what time it is.
Ray Arambula: We See You segment time.
Melissa Pergola: It is. So, let’s see what question we have
today.
Abdallah Najjar: Good day, Dr. Pergola. My question is, do
you think the job market for radiologic technologists could eventually
experience a downturn similar to the 2008-2010 period leading to an
oversaturation of technologists and a shortage of available positions? Thank
you.
Melissa Pergola: Mm, what a great question. So it really is a
great question. Thank you for that. You know, I’ve been around a long time, so
35 years in this profession, and so I fully understand the question that
you’re asking, right? Traditionally we had seen sort of a cycle of a glut and
a shortage, and I lived through multiple of those throughout my career.
So, when I graduated, I walked into a hospital and three of us were hired on
the spot for whatever shift we wanted, and then I graduated students who had
to take part-time jobs wherever they could just to get their foot in the door.
So it has been an issue in the past, and I would love to hear what Dr.
Thompson and Ray have to say about it. I’ll just say I think this is
different. So, we are seeing shortages in all health care professions and the
projections for all health care professions out decades are still looking like
we’re going to have shortages. And I think there are a lot of things that have
impacted that.
And one in particular I think was COVID. My short, really long, short answer
is that I don’t think that we’re going see the same cyclical nature. I think
it’s important the efforts that we’re doing to make sure that the profession
is seen and that we bring up the next generation, understanding who we are,
wanting to be a medical imaging or radiation therapy professional.
It’s a great question. What do you all think?
Jennifer Thompson: So, I don’t think it’s going to be an
issue either. We do have our students graduating, getting into those
entry-level positions, but what we’re seeing is they’re not staying in those
positions. They are going into other modalities. I know that we’re wary of AI
[artificial intelligence], but I’m thankful of AI because I think it is giving
a new opportunity for our radiologic technologists to move in a different
direction.
So, there are multiple opportunities that are out there that may have not been
there in 2008, and our students are always looking for growth. The
technologists are looking for growth, and those opportunities are going to be
there, and I don’t see them ending anytime soon.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Ray Arambula: I agree. I think that’s going to be a key
difference is the increasing role in AI in radiology. I think AI and machine
learning are changing the landscape of all careers.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Ray Arambula: Not just in the medical field, but I don’t know
that it’ll reduce demand. I think, you know, it’s more likely to increase
demand.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Ray Arambula: Especially for those who are willing to upscale
in some of their talents and skills.
Melissa Pergola: Right. Right. Upskilling and also the fact
that there will always be that human component.
Ray Arambula: Yeah.
Jennifer Thompson: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: Right. So we will always be here. There will
always be jobs, maybe new opportunities, but also at the heart of what we do
that won’t go away.
Ray Arambula: Right.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. Thank you again. What a great
question.
Ray Arambula: Well, that was a great episode. Jennifer, thank
you for being here. It’s exciting to just hear about your leadership and how
you’re empowering students to become active contributors into this profession.
So, thank you.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Jennifer Thompson: Yeah. Well, thank you and thank you for
your advocacy by having this podcast.
Ray Arambula: Absolutely.
We’ll be right back after this short message.
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Melissa Pergola: Hey, Ray.
Ray Arambula: Yes.
Melissa Pergola: It’s time for updates.
Ray Arambula: It is.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. So, you know what we say.
Ray Arambula: Don’t put yourself in a bad position.
Melissa Pergola: Stay up to date with the rad position.
Ray Arambula: There you go.
Melissa Pergola: Did you know that ASRT members have access
to nearly 300 medical imaging and radiation therapy procedures to refresh
their knowledge and skills? Did you Ray?
Ray Arambula: I know now.
Melissa Pergola: Well, I’m glad you know because these
refresher educational videos cover many things. They cover patient care, exam
prep, positioning and anatomy of interest. The modules are perfect for
brushing up on clinical activities or even preparing for the CQR requirement
that many of our technologists have. So where can we find out more?
Ray Arambula:
asrt.org/ClinicalRefreshers
Melissa Pergola: Excellent.
Well, what an inspiring episode.
Ray Arambula: It was.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. We do need to inspire all educators to
be that involved and get their students that involved because, like we said,
it really does make a difference in the engagement and the commitment.
Ray Arambula: Yeah.
Melissa Pergola: And the volunteerism.
Ray Arambula: Yeah.
Melissa Pergola: And the leadership —
Ray Arambula: Yes.
Melissa Pergola: — that is coming in the future.
Ray Arambula: Yeah.
Melissa Pergola: All right. Well, as we wrap up we want to
tell you we can’t wait till we see you next time. And don’t forget to write in
at the [email protected]. Or you
can fill out the form, and that site is —
Ray Arambula:
asrt.org/RADPosition.
And be sure to subscribe. Share it with your colleagues, your friends, your
families, neighbors, pets.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah, everybody, everybody. And to all our
medical imaging and radiation therapy professionals. Be seen.
Ray Arambula: And stay rad.