This is “The RAD Position” with ASRT CEO and Executive Director Melissa
Pergola, a podcast for medical imaging and radiation therapy professionals.
Melissa Pergola: Hi there and welcome back to “The RAD Position” podcast. I'm ASRT CEO and Executive Director Melissa Pergola.
Ray Arambula: And I am her podcast partner, Ray Arambula.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. And today we have Dr. Beth Vealé, ASRT treasurer. We're so excited to have you. We're going to talk about your passion for research and publishing. She's even a published textbook author.
Ray Arambula: Amazing. We're excited to learn more about that.
Beth Vealé: Well, thank you. I'm glad to be here.
Melissa Pergola: Now I'm going to tell you a little bit about Dr. Vealé. Dr. Vealé is professor emeritus of radiologic science and former chair of the Shimadzu School of Radiologic Sciences in the Robert D. & Carroll
Gunn College of Health Sciences & Human Services at Midwestern State University in Wichita Falls, Texas.
She has authored multiple peer-reviewed articles, co-authored the textbook
Digital Imaging and PACS, and presented talks across the U.S. for 35 years. She is a former member of the ASRT Radiologic Technology Editorial Review Board, the ASRT Research and Grants Advisory Panel, Education Chapter delegate
for the ASRT, a former member of the ASRT Curriculum Review Committee and is currently treasurer of the ASRT Board of Directors. That's a lot of service. She is married almost 50 years, has one daughter and is a grandma to four goats, a pregnant donkey,
two dogs and a cat. Welcome Dr. Vealé. Thank you for coming on with us tonight.
Beth Vealé: Thank you so much. Boy, I guess I have done a lot.
Melissa Pergola: You've done a huge amount.
Ray Arambula: It's a lot.
Melissa Pergola: So, can you tell us about two of the positions that you've done? One, you were an ASRT Editorial Review Board member. Can you tell us about that? And then also can you tell us about the ASRT Research and Grants Advisory
Panel?
Beth Vealé: I didn't think about being on the Editorial Review Board, and it was actually James Johnston, who was the chair of the Board, that asked if I would be interested in.
Melissa Pergola: Mm-hmm.
Beth Vealé: And it was probably one of the best research exercises I've ever done.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Beth Vealé: It taught me a lot. It taught me not to ignore statistics, which a lot of us do.
We see that bump in the road and then go running the other way. And so, I learned to research and figure that out. Plus, the minds that you meet. Just the people who are on the Board —
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Beth Vealé: — who've authored books or articles and come up with the ideas for short reports and things that we contributed to the journal.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Beth Vealé: It was one of the best experiences I've ever had because it really taught me the value of research.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. Yeah, it does. I was on the Editorial Review Board for a few years too, and what I loved about it was an opportunity to mentor researchers too. And so, at that time we put the checklist available online.
Beth Vealé: Yes.
Melissa Pergola: So that authors knew exactly what we were going to look for. And then since then we created the mentoring program.
Beth Vealé: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: Where if someone submits a manuscript and it needs work, they can be assigned a mentor. Just amazing work being done by the ERB and so important, right? Cause we said we need more research in our profession.
Beth Vealé: Absolutely. I mean, nobody knows who we are till we get out there.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Beth Vealé: Yeah. It taught me so much and I was able to take that back to my students.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Beth Vealé: Not just our master's students, but our baccalaureate undergraduates, entry level. And they take research and then have to write a paper in a second class.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Beth Vealé: So, yeah. It's been fascinating. It was a great time. In fact, I was very sad to leave. I cried a little bit and …
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. Yeah. It's so important, the work that they do. I remember, I'll tell you a funny story. So, the first time I tried to get published, it was with the ASRT, and it was back in the day when you had to make three copies.
Beth Vealé: Yes.
Melissa Pergola: Talk about how old I am. When you had to make three copies and send them in, and three reviewers took red markers.
Beth Vealé: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: And then I got this big package back with my three copies with all of the red marks through it. And I can —
Beth Vealé: We call that bloodying?
Melissa Pergola: Yes, yes.
Beth Vealé: Yes, it’s intimidating.
Melissa Pergola: Now it's online, so it's not red, but you still get that. And so, when I had the opportunity to teach students research, I explained to them that's not just ASRT. There's a standard —
Beth Vealé: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: — to be a peer review, published author. And I had a good mentor at the time. He said, “You know what? It's fine. This happens to everybody. Like rarely is anything accepted right away. What you have to do
now is put the work in and listen to those experts.” And I did, and I got it published, and it was such a horrifying and wonderful experience.
Beth Vealé: The big thing I think is you just have to do it. Time passes anyway.
Melissa Pergola: Yes, yes.
So, you have been doing publishing for many years, so you have this impressive history related to your research and you've been an Editorial Review Board member —
Beth Vealé: Yes.
Melissa Pergola: — for the ASRT. A member of the ASRT Research and Grants Advisory Panel.
Beth Vealé: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: So, can you tell us a little bit about how these volunteer positions affected you and why volunteering and research is important to you?
Beth Vealé: Well, I probably should preface it by saying research was never on my radar.
Melissa Pergola: Really?
Beth Vealé: But once I started, it started with a local, like the physician’s group.
Melissa Pergola: Mm-hmm.
Beth Vealé: The medical, the county medical association.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Beth Vealé: And a friend of mine who was the chair of the department at that time said, “Help me write this.” Well, OK. Well, I just started looking in the newspaper for things, when things started; it was all about
our program, and I found that interesting and it got published. And then just over time I started publishing articles because the university required it.
Melissa Pergola: Mm-hmm.
Beth Vealé: And I got interested. I love presentations.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Beth Vealé: And so, a good PowerPoint presentation is a great introduction to a research article.
Melissa Pergola: Mm-hmm.
Beth Vealé: So, you've done all the research. You have all the articles, so go slide by slide and turn that into a paper.
Melissa Pergola: Nice.
We'll be right back after this short message.
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Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Ray Arambula: And so, you've published several articles, even co-authored a textbook.
Beth Vealé: Yes.
Ray Arambula: So, can you tell our listeners how you got started publishing?
Beth Vealé: When I got on the Editorial Review Board, this is after publishing probably 13 articles —
Melissa Pergola: Wow.
Beth Vealé: — then I started learning about other people and what they were interested in. And then what things you could see in research that I'd never thought of before. And so, after that I started teaching a master's
program and they have to research.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Beth Vealé: And so, I had to figure out how to do it even better. I kind of got started that way. And the book. The lady that wrote it with me, Christie Carter, was my student at one time. Then she became the department chair of
Brookhaven College, prior to it becoming Dallas College.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Beth Vealé: And we were at a seminar — I think it was ACERT [Association of Collegiate Educators in Radiologic Technology] in Vegas one year — and she came up to me and said, “Let's write a book.”
Melissa Pergola: Wow.
Beth Vealé: So, we said, “OK, let's write a book.” And this was really at the very beginning of informatics and PACS and also digital imaging.
Melissa Pergola: Mm-hmm.
Beth Vealé: It had only been around for us for like four years. I know CT [computed tomography] had been around a while, but yeah, the depths had not been around that long.
Melissa Pergola: Mm-hmm.
Beth Vealé: And so, I really credit Anthony Seabert —
Melissa Pergola: Mm-hmm.
Beth Vealé: — out of university of California. And so, we were able to write that first business of CR [computed radiography].
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Beth Vealé: And then last edition, we got rid of most of the CR, and now in this edition, it'll be all DR [digital radiography] and what's new in informatic.
Ray Arambula: Wow.
Melissa Pergola: So, one of the things that stands out to me with what you said is that you had someone who was a student and then a colleague and you got together, networking at an event.
Beth Vealé: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: And came together and said, “We need to solve a problem.”
Beth Vealé: Yep.
Melissa Pergola: And together you did something amazing. You published a textbook. And I think that for me, the moral of that story is, particularly when we're talking about research, is if you are fearful — cause it is scary. I
remember the first time I tried to publish, it's scary — that if, one thing you can do is you can find like-minded colleagues and maybe you can work together.
Beth Vealé: Exactly. And, you know, I believe the ASRT in the journal still puts the ERBs — Puts their email addresses on there. Yeah. And I would urge any technologist that wants to write to get ahold of those.
Melissa Pergola: Mm-hmm.
Beth Vealé: — puts their email addresses on there.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Beth Vealé: And I would urge any technologist that wants to write to get ahold of those —
Ray Arambula: Yeah.
Beth Vealé: — those folks. And even me sitting on the Board, I'm more than happy to give advice or help somebody who's wanting to start.
Melissa Pergola: Yes. Yes. And we need that body of knowledge for our profession, right?
Beth Vealé: We do.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. So, what advice do you have to medical imaging and radiation therapy program directors to promote research?
Beth Vealé: Do an internet search first.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Beth Vealé: Teach 'em how to use Google Scholar. That's one of the easiest ways to find articles. Because to the right-hand side of what you pull up, it tells you what database it came out of.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Beth Vealé: Students need to know that Google is not a database, neither is a library.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Beth Vealé: They house databases, but they do, they are not a database. And so that distinction is really important. And then once they do that, I show my students how to cut it down, for example. I want to write an article on
TB.
Melissa Pergola: So it’s a little big.
Beth Vealé: OK. I want you to go to Google Scholar and Google TB.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Beth Vealé: And it comes up 6.9 million articles, and I say, “OK, look through that first page. Is there anything that sticks out? How about you change on the left side, the years that you're looking at?”
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Beth Vealé: Only look at the last five years.
Melissa Pergola: Sure.
Beth Vealé: Then see how many you have. Oh, you only have 1.2 million. That's awesome. Start looking at it.
Ray Arambula: So, Beth, thank you for that insight around the many ways we can do research and the many, just, avenues to pursue. But let's talk about your time on the Board so far, and what have you learned about the ASRT during your
Board service?
Beth Vealé: As I was looking into running for the office, I realized also that I was one of 356,000 plus. And why not me?
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Beth Vealé: I've been in this profession for 40 years.
Melissa Pergola: Wow.
Beth Vealé: And didn't know for a long time that that was an opportunity for me. I knew about our state society. I knew nothing about the national society, and so when I started meeting people and dealing with people who'd been
on those boards, they started filling me in on what a great service it was. And I believe in paying back the profession. So, if there's something I can do that makes even a tiny little ripple —
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Beth Vealé: — to make it better for technologists, I'm all in.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Beth Vealé: Because I, we've been not seen for far, far too long. It'll change your perspective on the Board. It'll change your perspective on our profession.
Melissa Pergola: Mm-hmm.
Beth Vealé: It'll change your perspective on service.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Beth Vealé: Service learning.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Beth Vealé: Students. It's the most inspiring thing I've done.
Melissa Pergola: Yes, and you should be proud.
Beth Vealé: I love what I've been asked to do. The work part of it is absolute manna from heaven to me is to be asked to be part of the biggest part of our profession.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Beth Vealé: What makes the rules? What gets us going forward?
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Beth Vealé: I'm in.
Melissa Pergola: Nice. Well, we want to thank you for your, how many years of service?
Ray Arambula: Almost 40?
Melissa Pergola: Almost.
Beth Vealé: Almost 40. Forty years of being a radiologic technologist.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Ray Arambula: Wow.
Beth Vealé: Thirty-five years of, or 36 years now, of being a member.
Ray Arambula: Wow.
Melissa Pergola: Wow, wow. And then all of the other things that you've done with research and promoting research and even publishing a textbook; it's been really, really cool to talk to you and hear about that journey.
Beth Vealé: Well, thank you. It was easy. It was easy. This profession's worth it. You do those things to advance your profession. It's like, what's that saying? If you love what you do —
Beth Vealé and Melissa Pergola: — you'll never work a day in your life.
Melissa Pergola: That's right.
Beth Vealé: Well, I've volunteered for what I love, and I've never worked a day in my life.
Ray Arambula: Well, thank you so much for that, Beth. Now we're going to transition into a game. This one I'm calling Title Teasers.
Melissa Pergola: Title Teasers. OK.
Ray Arambula: For this game, I'm going to give you three different research paper titles.
Melissa Pergola: Oh.
Ray Arambula: Two of them are real. One is fake.
Melissa Pergola: Oh, I love games like this. OK.
Ray Arambula: And you have to guess the fake one.
Melissa Pergola: OK.
Ray Arambula: OK. OK. Now Beth, obviously you're the clear choice winner given your research background. But let's see if Melissa surprises us. I doubt it.
Melissa Pergola: Nice.
Beth Vealé: She's way smarter than I am. We’ll see.
Melissa Pergola: Oh, no, no, no.
Ray Arambula: She can talk a game. OK, So we're going to go with the first round. “MRI Finds Extra Tooth Growing in Brain.” Second title: CT Scan Reveals a Live Spider in a Patient's Ear.” And the third title: X-ray
Confirms Patient Swallowed a TV Remote.” Which do you think is the fake one?
Melissa Pergola: Oh...
Ray Arambula: How about you, Beth? We'll start with —
Beth Vealé: Two.
Ray Arambula: Two?
Beth Vealé: Uh-huh.
Melissa Pergola: I'm going to say number one.
Ray Arambula: Number one? Interesting. Well, you're both wrong.
Melissa Pergola: Oh, get out.
Ray Arambula: The third one is the fake.
Melissa Pergola: Here's the thing. We both worked in imaging and people swallow all kinds of things.
Ray Arambula: I believe it.
Melissa Pergola: And that's why that actually I would've thought was the only one that I was sure was right. What about you, Beth?
Beth Vealé: Yeah. And also, it's very difficult to show a spider on a CT. Please. I want to recount.
Ray Arambula: Well, we have two more rounds.
Melissa Pergola: OK, we we’re at zero-zero.
Ray Arambula: You guys are tied. OK, here's the second round.
Melissa Pergola: OK.
Ray Arambula: OK. First title: “Caffeine Improves Radiologist’s Accuracy.”
Melissa Pergola: OK.
Ray Arambula: Second Title: “Radiologists Blink Less When Focused.”
Melissa Pergola: What?
Ray Arambula: And the third title: “Background Noise Affects MRI Readings.”
Melissa Pergola: OK.
Beth Vealé: Oh, I got this one to you.
Melissa Pergola: Do you?
Ray Arambula: OK, Beth, go ahead. What is the fake one?
Beth Vealé: One.
Ray Arambula: First title is the fake?
Beth Vealé: Yep.
Ray Arambula: Melissa?
Melissa Pergola: I'm going to say two.
Ray Arambula: Beth, you are correct.
Melissa Pergola: Oh.
Ray Arambula: Last round.
Melissa Pergola: OK.
Ray Arambula: First title: “CT Scans Reveal Hidden Tumor Patterns.”
Melissa Pergola: Mm-hmm.
Ray Arambula: Second title: “AI Uses X-rays to Determine Biological Age.”
Melissa Pergola: Mm-hmm.
Ray Arambula: And the third title: “MRI Can Predict a Person's Intelligence.” Which is the fake one?
Melissa Pergola: This one’s hard.
Beth Vealé: I'm going to say number three.
Melissa Pergola: I don't want to say the same one. So. I'm going to say number two.
Ray Arambula: I would've went with yours.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. So we're both wrong.
Ray Arambula: However, Beth is correct.
Melissa Pergola: Beth!
Ray Arambula: Like I said, we have a clear choice winner.
Melissa Pergola: Wow.
Ray Arambula: But thank you for playing, Melissa.
Melissa Pergola: Oh gee. You're, wow, you're welcome.
Beth Vealé: That that might be a, I might have had a little bit of edge. I taught MRI for 25 years.
Ray Arambula: OK.
Melissa Pergola: Oh, so unfair.
Ray Arambula: Well, thank you for playing along.
Beth Vealé: Thank you.
Melissa Pergola: Oh. So now while we have you here, we do something called the We See You Segment, and we have members who write in to our email or use our form on our site, and they can ask us questions, tell us stories about their amazing
career. And so, we want you to stay with us for this question and kind of help us answer it.
Beth Vealé: Be glad to.
Heather Koepp: Hello, my name is Heather Koepp. I've been a radiologic technologist for 28 years, and I'm currently serving as the president of the Louisiana Society of Radiologic Technologists. I have a question. Like many other states,
we are concerned about encroachment. How can we boost interest in the vital legislative and regulatory issues? How do you keep people engaged and informed on advocacy issues?
Melissa Pergola: That's good question.
Ray Arambula: Good question.
Melissa Pergola: And we're all dealing with that, right?
Ray Arambula: Mm-hmm.
Melissa Pergola: So, I hear two parts to that question. One is, how do we get people interested in policy issues?
And then the other is really about how do we keep them engaged and informed? So if it's OK, I'll kind of start with the how to boost interest, and when I think about how to boost interest, I think about making things personal. So sometimes we think about
policy issues kind of in the abstract, or maybe we don't truly understand how it impacts us or how it affects us.
So, I think that the short answer I would give is storytelling. So, I think to get people interested, we have to learn to tell them stories about how it impacts them, their family, their livelihood, their job, and then sharing those stories about why
advocacy matters. Storytelling is so powerful in general. But I think to try to help people understand why it matters. I think that would be my suggestion for that part.
Ray Arambula: Yeah. And I think in addition with that testimonials —
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Ray Arambula: — go a long way as well. They help —
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Ray Arambula: — highlight, I think, why legislation is important.
Melissa Pergola: Mm-hmm.
Ray Arambula: Especially around patient safety concerns.
Melissa Pergola: Right.
Ray Arambula: But I also think too, you know, one person can't do it alone. It takes, you know, others who are also passionate about advocacy and helping spread that awareness as well.
Beth Vealé: And I'd look at it from a different side.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Beth Vealé: As a manager, I learned that the least likely to join in and do anything. And so the best way to approach them with something like this when you want to get them involved is enter into it with: “You know, I went
to this meeting.”
Melissa Pergola: mm-hmm.
Beth Vealé: “I saw this or I did this. This is perfect for you.”
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Beth Vealé: “You would be great at this. I would be happy to help you do a presentation locally.” If you pump people up instead of going: “I had a great time. You should have gone.” And then —
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Beth Vealé: — about everything else they did, but what they learned at the meeting, and nobody wants to come back and give a report. That's how I engage.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Ray Arambula: What an impact that has made in my life, in my career, by someone stepping out and being bold and telling me to do something —
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Ray Arambula: — and volunteer for this position.
Melissa Pergola: We could say, you should give invitations.
Ray Arambula: Yeah.
Melissa Pergola: Because that's kind of what I heard you say, right?
Beth Vealé: Following courage.
Melissa Pergola: You invited that person. And when you said that too, I think about mentoring, right? We need, we want to get people engaged. We need to invite them and we need to mentor them.
Beth Vealé: And we need to be prepared for those technologists that say, “It's not going to do me any good.” You know, you're right. It might not do you any good, but you're so good at what you do that you could make
it better for other people. You would be the best person to do that. So sometimes it's not just wanting to be a mentor, it's encouraging people to be the mentor.
Melissa Pergola: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So in, in addition to mentoring, it's also sort of lifting people up to let them know the value that they bring and that they can do things and they can also mentor others.
Beth Vealé: I think that's our job.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Ray Arambula: And we also have resources. People can —
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Ray Arambula: — stay informed at
asrt.org/AdvocacyActionCenter.
Melissa Pergola: So, what a great episode. Thank you, Dr. Vealé, for talking to us about research and how we can get people involved in research, what educators can do, what we can do as R.T.s, and telling us about your nearly
40-year career, which I'll say again, even the authoring of a textbook.
Ray Arambula: Yes. Thank you for your significant contribution and your continued leadership that you currently play in your role as ASRT Board member and just, simply, talking to you.
Beth Vealé: Oh, thank you.
Ray Arambula: A fascinating person.
Beth Vealé: Thank you. This has been great fun for me. I love talking about the profession, so.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
We'll be right back after this short
message.
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Melissa Pergola: Hey Ray.
Ray Arambula: Hey Melissa.
Melissa Pergola: It's time for our updates.
Ray Arambula: Is it really?
Melissa Pergola: It is.
Ray Arambula: Oh, I'm so excited.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. Don't put yourself in a bad position.
Ray Arambula: Stay up to date at “The RAD Position.”
So, I would like to take a moment to update our listeners about some resources they can use to learn more about ASRT's advocacy initiatives. The ASRT is a tireless advocate for the medical imaging radiation therapy professionals. So we provide valuable
information about legislation affecting you and your patients.
The ASRT website's advocacy section includes information about state licensure laws, federal regulations and maps that track legislation by state by state. To learn more, visit the ASRT Advocacy Action Center, and there you can learn about state and federal
issues affecting R.T.s and communicate with lawmakers, regulatory agencies. It's easy to use and effective, so go to
asrt.org/Advocacy.
Melissa Pergola: That was a great episode.
Ray Arambula: It was.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah, research is so important.
Ray Arambula: Yes.
Melissa Pergola: It's so important. So, I'm glad that we had Dr. Vealé here to talk about how educators can get their students into research and how R.T.s — a lot of times we don't think, as we're a clinician — that
we can publish, but R.T.s can publish.
Ray Arambula: Yeah. And it was good to hear her vast experience around mentoring around that.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Ray Arambula: And being somewhat of a mentor and getting people involved and letting them know it's OK to be rejected or —
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Ray Arambula: — see a lot of red.
Melissa Pergola: That's true.
Thank you all for listening and watching, and we hope you're watching. So don't forget to check us out on YouTube.
Ray Arambula: That's right. And don't forget to write in at
[email protected]. Or you can fill out the form at
asrt.org/RADPosition.
Melissa Pergola: And to all our medical imaging and radiation therapy professionals, be seen.
Ray Arambula: And stay rad.